DIY compatible Waves Soundgrid Server

[Whoops]

Looking on eBay there are plenty of servers for sale.

Don't need a server the Soundgrid "server" is a normal/standard computer

Or if someone spots a common computer that would make a good candidate they could mention it here.

Any motherboard with a Gigabit Intel LAN card (the most important thing)
And you can use any  i5 or i7 processor

Countless of cheap computers outhere for this

 

[GreyboxAudio]

$s per C6

Hi now we have it working would it be possible to work out a sort of bang per buck table. Looking on eBay there are plenty of servers for sale. Many are under the hundred pound mark in an ITX(? small) size case and might work well if they use the onboard intel NIC. I don't think lots people would find the full depth 1U servers practical.
My 2015 1.6Ghz NUC works but maxes out too easily. Powerful new NUCs are too expensive (for me).

The C6 has generally been a good measure as it has been a fairly power hungry plug, perhaps people could list what they are running, how much they picked it up for, and how many C6s it runs in their DAW before maxing out!

Just a thought, hope its not too off topic.

Or if someone spots a common computer that would make a good candidate they could mention it here.

One thing to keep in mind are heat & noise. Smaller case = less room for cooling = more noise. That's also why you absolutely don't want to get an old 1U server, because those things are LOUD. I recommend something that fits a low-profile CPU cooler and at least some 80mm case fans.

I bought a Fractal Design Core 500 for my system https://www.fractal-design.com/products/cases/core/core-500/black/
It won't fit in a rack, but it's still fairly compact and portable. It's also really good value imo and has great airflow & fan support.
Getting everything in there can be a bit of a pain, but it's manageable. An SFX PSU will give you a bit more room to work with. The only real downside for me is, that the motherboard I/O lines up with the back panel. Because of that, the wifi antenna sockets on the B360N-WiFi motherboard stand out and are quite vulnerable. If you have a compatible motherboard without wifi, this won't be an issue though.

Speaking of "things that could easily break off": I can recommend the 'SanDisk Ultra Fit' usb drives. They are affordable, fast and don't stand out very much.

 

[Whoops]

Hi, thanks for the input.

Is the thermal management working in your build?
Like when it's hot does the soundgrid software communicate with the the MTB and fans to speed them up and when it's colder slows them down?

Some people seem to have problems with the thermal management not working on the DIY servers

Thanks

 

[Whoops]

Hi,
I have the server image version 9.7, if someone has a newer version could you please send it to me?

Thank you so much
Best Regards

 

[Whoops]

I bought an HP EliteDesk 800 G1 Ultra-slim PC for cheap and tried to install the server image on the internal SSD drive.
It came with a 32GB SSD that I have no other use for, so I'm not using an USB PEN.

I followed krabbencutter great instructions posted on this thread:

https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1311451-diy-waves-soundgrid-server-2020-edition.html

I followed the instructions and was able to create the "Syslinux 6.04" on the boot drive and extracted the .wfi content to the drive.

I tried to boot the computer just to see if the installation was successful but although it recognizes the Syslinux 6.04 I get a "No configuration file Found" message an it gets stuck on "Boot: _"

The computer/server is not connected to a soundgrid card or to an host computer,
is this normal or it should boot?

What does the "No configuration file Found" message means?

 

[macpherson]

Hi Whoops
This is a suggestion:

Download a Linux Iso, Use Rufus to Install it on to a usb stick, if done correctly this will make the usb stick a bootable directory.
On the new PC switch on and hold down F2 or which ever key allows you access to the BIOS.
Make the appropriate changes in the BIOS so the computer looks for a bootable USB stick before it defaults to the hard drive.
Insert the stick in the new PC and restart
If the PC loads up LInux then you are nearly there.
On your other machine examine the SGS file you have and compare it with the contents of the stick with Linux distribution that you now know works.
There should be some similarities, the sort of files that tell the computer that it is dealing with an operating system and not a programme file. If your SGS images has a similar structure then carefully delete the Linux files from the stick and paste in the SGS image.
Put this in your machine and give it a go.
Hopefully you will get Penguins!!
I have attached a photo of how it should look when it's booted up.
If it goes into a loop then connect to network cable between your d.a.w. and the computer you are using as a server and restart your server if all is well it will look like the picture.
Run the sound grid software on your d.a.w. computer and let it connect.
Once you've got this far you are able to update the server from your d.a.w. computer by holding down a key (Can't remember which one but I mentioned it in the post further up) and clicking on the update button in the bottom right corner of the server icon in your version of soundgrid studio.
This should allow you to choose where it is installed so you could choose the hard drive in the machine instead of the Stick.
Then change your server BIOS settings to boot from the hard drive.

Hope this is of help!

 

[Whoops]

Hi,
I was able to do the server and tested it today in a friends soundgrid system and it was immediately recognized.

The problem I was having it was because I've made a mistake and didn't extract the server image directly to the root drive.
The image has 2 folders: Boot and Version. Those 2 folders need to be at root level and I extracted them to a Soundgrid named folder inside the root.

This is what boot drive should look like:

I used the internal SSD Hardrive and not a USB PEN, it works both ways.

This is really easy to do, I never imaged it would be that easy.
This are the steps I did, using instructions from krabbencutter in this thread:
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/music-computers/1311451-diy-waves-soundgrid-server-2020-edition.html


1) Downloaded Rufus , https://rufus.ie/, you will need Rufus to format the boot drive to a bootable Syslinux 6.03 drive
2) Open Rufus, click the  "Show advanced drive properties" option and click "Show USB Drives"
3) Select the drive where you want to install the image
4) On the "Boot selection" drop-down options choose "Syslinux 6.03", click start
5)If rufus is not able to download the ldlinux.c32 file and you have an error, download it manually from  https://rufus.ie/files/syslinux-6.03/ldlinux.c32  to the "rufus_files"  folder (in my case this folder was on the desktop has it was the rufus exe file location
6)After you are sucessfull in creating the syslinux drive, open the soundgrid server image with 7-Zip https://7-zip.org/ and extrack the server contents, Boot and Version folders, to the syslinux drive root

Then you're done, it's really simple.
Thanks krabbencutter for the guide

 

[joaquins]

$s per C6

I took apart the one I got working as I put that PC as the main one for recording, it is an i7 4770K.

Thermals weren't an issue, with the stock cooler it stayed about 60°C at full load. The clock was conservative, but that thing would run hot even under the stock clock if something would be wrong.

I'm planning to rebuild the server (likely on the same motherboard) with a 4th gen i5, not even a fancy one, and see how it works, at least it should help the i7. If it doesn't cut it I do have an i5 5670k but that pc is being used, so would be a bit of a hassle to swap.

I could upload the amount of C6 it loads if that's useful, but I don't know if that would be helpful as it's an older system and finding one might not be easy, I just have them lying around. I don't know when I will get a chance to do it, though. The i7 it's kind of out of the question as it's a working computer right now and on a different motherboard, with an odd mounting cooler so I just wouldn't, I did maxed it out with a combination of plugins (I didn't know if only one would be representative) but you could check that against yours, I did mentioned that before.

I'm not sure how resources are managed and measured, I did notice that at first it chews quite a bit but once it was almost full it loaded quite a few more without problems. I didn't tested that extensively, just mentioning. For that I think itmmight be better to load C6 up to 90%, maybe it's better to do it till it won't load any more.

JS

 

[Whoops]

I'm still amazed on how can a $2500 item be so easy to do...

It's unbelieveble

 

[bernatvm]

I'm still amazed on how can a $2500 item be so easy to do...

It's unbelieveble

What really amazes me is how a company can manage to sell a "so easy to do" item at $2500 prize tag...

 

[kingkorg]

Worth to mention latest Rufus doesn't have Syslinux 6.04. You need to go with some of the previous versions.

 

[iomegaman]

Ok I spent the day building a server using these instructions...I was actually considering buying a Waves Impact server on Reverb because lately I have been using a lot of Waves plugins lately and really liking some of them...

I had a little box computer in the basement that I stopped using...followed the instructions and everything seems to be working fine in ProTools 2020...its an older Gigabyte ga-eg45m-ud2h...I took out the hard drive burned the files to a thumb drive and it booted right up...

The technical work took maybe an hour...the TROUBLESHOOTING Waves Grid Server has been about 5 hours of WTF???

Why in hell does Waves think its smart to include a network address for "None" that scans absolutely nothing for about an hour is beyond me...

I have 2 Ethernet ports on my Mac Pro...so it took a few tries to figure out which port was connected to the server...once I narrowed that down...setting things up is just like watching fire works because I am using the Apogee Symphony in USB mode and everytime it enumerates audio the software cycles through about 6 times...total pain in the ass...

I love the sound of the Apogee Symphony Converters, but I absolutely LOATHE the Maestro app it is a terrible utility and using it USB is really just asking for a headache...I am torn between keeping it and upgrading to a Thunderbridge unit to connect or just ditching Apogee altogether and switching to Antelope and Thunderbolt...

I've got 16 channels and to match it in Antelope is $2k...a TB box online is around $300-$400...I'm thinking I'll keep it a bit longer...but man the nag screens in ProTools with WavesGrid Server and the popups from Apogee make me want to put a bullet through the screen...

 

[iomegaman]

What really amazes me is how a company can manage to sell a "so easy to do" item at $2500 prize tag...

I'm a real cheapskate...I bargain just about anything I can...Like I stated before I've just recently gotten on the Waves fanboy wagon, some of the Abbey Roads stuff and the CLA Mixhub and a few other things are really quite good...I say this as someone who builds my own gear...but after a while the cost and time to build a decent tube EQ versus spending $29.00 on a plugin that can get to about 75-80% of the same sound (minus the headroom of course) it's just starting to get to easy to slap a plugin on the mix and move on.

But the cost shows up in CPU overhead...and rather than upgrade my computer I started looking into an upgrade path that could benefit the studio...and so I was seriously considering one of the cheaper Waves Soundgrid Servers...I found a couple on Reverb around $300-500 but it was hard to sort out what the difference was...so I was researching it when I discovered this thread...

Bottom line I have discovered I can build my own really good quality server for less than $200 instead of the minimum of $700 from waves...so thanks for this thread!

But yea there are people less patient than I am with money to burn thats why Waves sells these $200 servers for 10X the $

 

[Whoops]

I say this as someone who builds my own gear...but after a while the cost and time to build a decent tube EQ versus spending $29.00 on a plugin that can get to about 75-80% of the same sound (minus the headroom of course) it's just starting to get to easy to slap a plugin on the mix and move on.

Of Course. And you can have 30 of those EQs in different tracks, you can automate them, you can use them in multiple sessions and always get the same setting from the last time you saved it, and they don't fail or start to make weird noises in the middle of a mixing session, also plugins sound the same every time you open them and I never found the same with hardware units when I used them for years in mixing.
Artists and bands expect that when they send the notes for the mixing revisions, sometimes weeks after you done the mix, that you revise the exact same mix that they listened and not an apoximation of it.
You say "75-80% of the same sound" but for example if I want to use a Pultec to boost some dDS at 60hz it really doesn't matter if I'm using a real hardware Pultec or a Plugin, seeing the big picture (the complete mix) it's 100% the same thing plus the big benefits I talked above.

Just a word of note that I'm saying this coming from a person that worked many years in an amazing studio with dream like outboard gear, and I also like to build gear, but after I got the UAD plugin emulations, hardware was over for me in mixing and my work is not worse it just keeps improving over the years.

But yea there are people less patient than I am with money to burn thats why Waves sells these $200 servers for 10X the $

They are targeted towards Live Sound Reinforcement and Broadcast, not that much to personal studios...

 

[iomegaman]

Of Course. And you can have 30 of those EQs in different tracks, you can automate them, you can use them in multiple sessions and always get the same setting from the last time you saved it, and they don't fail or start to make weird noises in the middle of a mixing session, also plugins sound the same every time you open them and I never found the same with hardware units when I used them for years in mixing.
Artists and bands expect that when they send the notes for the mixing revisions, sometimes weeks after you done the mix, that you revise the exact same mix that they listened and not an apoximation of it.
You say "75-80% of the same sound" but for example if I want to use a Pultec to boost some dDS at 60hz it really doesn't matter if I'm using a real hardware Pultec or a Plugin, seeing the big picture (the complete mix) it's 100% the same thing plus the big benefits I talked above.

Just a word of note that I'm saying this coming from a person that worked many years in an amazing studio with dream like outboard gear, and I also like to build gear, but after I got the UAD plugin emulations, hardware was over for me in mixing and my work is not worse it just keeps improving over the years.


They are targeted towards Live Sound Reinforcement and Broadcast, not that much to personal studios...

Yep spot on!

I'm going to go back through this thread and the one at GS and figure out if I can use my 2011 MacBookPro with a simple USB stick...this little laptop is one of the most efficient and powerful laptops Apple ever built but its getting a bit long in tooth, using it to double as a Waves Server at times might be really nice (2.2 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7)...not sure if the mac ethernet is compatible though...it shouldn't be to hard to find out I'm running Catalina on it anyway...

But I think I am definitely going to experiment and build a studio SoundgridServer with as much "omf" as I can get...its well worth it...

I currently have a Titan Ridge card I flashed in my Mac Pro Daw so I can run my Apollo Twin mainly for the extra plugin power (that or using Console so I can use it as an insert in the Symphony)...

I suppose its probably time to upgrade my computer machines...but my god thes Apple boxes run well...and the new stuff does not have any freaking ports or way to upgrade anything which I loathe.


Down that road I might look around for one of the Mac Mini's for this...prices are plummeting because of the new Mac M1 Silicone chip and those little mini's are quiet and unobtrusive...

 

[Whoops]

my 2011 MacBookPro with a simple USB stick...this little laptop is one of the most efficient and powerful laptops Apple ever built

I have a Late 2011 13inch MacBook Pro and an Mid 2012. These are incredible machines, still use them everyday. I installed SSD drives, and have RAM at 16GB (max value) and they are still really powerful and fast in 2021. Probably the best laptops ever done by any company. Unfortunately that seems to be the Pinnacle of laptops for Apple since then everything is worse...

 

[cyrano]

Funny. Been reading this thread on mid 2012 16/1000... 

 

[Whoops]

Funny. Been reading this thread on mid 2012 16/1000... 

What a classic,
it's an impressive laptop

 

[iomegaman]

I have a Late 2011 13inch MacBook Pro and an Mid 2012. These are incredible machines, still use them everyday. I installed SSD drives, and have RAM at 16GB (max value) and they are still really powerful and fast in 2021. Probably the best laptops ever done by any company. Unfortunately that seems to be the Pinnacle of laptops for Apple since then everything is worse...

Yep I've done the same and even took out the DVD drive and replaced it with a SATA just for onboard backup...Apple keeps screwing around with the ports on these devices, I get that technology changes but my god the new M1's have 2 freaking ports total, no USB 2...these are the newer Thunderbolt USB-C backward compatible...so if you want to use this you basically have to buy a dock...and if I wanted to use any TB 2 it would require an adapter...friggin fruit computer.

I wonder at times if Apple does not make a huge mark up on port adapters...I know that to use my Apollo Twin on my Mac Tower (5,1) I had to buy the Apple proprietary Thunderbolt/C to TB-2 adapter...it was $50...for a piece of plastic with a little chip in it so I can use what is basically backwards compatibility.

 

[iomegaman]

So I just picked up an INtel NUC computer on Craiscrap for $50...ad said it wouldn't power up...

Took it apart, it had the wrong voltage RAM in it...1.5 is pretty typical for laptop style ram, but it clearly called for 1.35 on the dimm modules...big ol sticker right across them...

Changed out the ram...booted it up had not been used since 2016...changed the date inserted the USB stick and it booted into the server in 3 minutes (need to disable the stoopid INtel bootup thingy looking for a server to load OS)...

I can run at least 2-3 instance of Abbey Roads chambers at 70%...this little box is fast, was cheap and I wanna give a big ol' shout out of thanks to the DIY community...you guys have saved me millions that I never had in the first place.