DIY Germanium Mic Pre?

[danjpiscina]

Hi guys. This thing looks astonishingly simple to build and sounds great. Is it too good to be true? Is it just me or is it actually a simple build? Anyone have any schematics?

 

[fucanay]

I think this is it in commercial form.

http://www.chandlerlimited.com/products/germanium_pre.php

 

[danjpiscina]

Yes. The above picture is the guts of the Chandler Germanium Mic Pre. Very simple design.

 

[3nity]

Being a unit still in production makes it  a no no cloning!
Altough i dont know the schematics maybe we can design something ala Germanium stuff dont you think?

Jorge Aristondo.

 

[Svart]

yeah but the fun part is the circuit inside that potted box...  Good luck even trying to clone it if you were so inclined.

 

[Biasrocks]

yeah but the fun part is the circuit inside that potted box...  Good luck even trying to clone it if you were so inclined.

I've got a pair of Neve 1060's sitting right next to me along with schemo's.

Needs iron in front and back.

Mark

 

[danjpiscina]

I don't understand. Why can't you clone something still in production? It's just for a few people. As long as we don't make 1,000 of them and sell them as "Chandler" there shouldn't be a problem. Plus, we won't be cloning it. I'm sure the layout would be a little different. Aren't  the 33609, 2254, and 1073 still in production? Many people are commercially "cloning" those. Vintech, Brent Averill, etc.

 

[canidoit]

Being a unit still in production makes it  a no no cloning!
Altough i dont know the schematics maybe we can design something ala Germanium stuff dont you think?

Jorge Aristondo.

Don't you mean, a product still protected by patent? I mean, the Neve 1073 is still in production, isn't it, by AMS Neve and everyone is cloning it?

 

[Kingston]

You can't patent a simple circuit like that. It's just a bit unethical to clone it and make data available here for everyone to see, since it's still putting food on someone's table.

But this is where we enter the prodigy pro gray area and heated discussion always breaks out. I mean it's why it's ok to clone LA2A, 1176,SSL stuff, API's, neve's, sontecs, calrecs etc, but not some others. I never saw the distinction. they're all still in production.

 

[Moby]

Cloning is no,no , but redesigning is OK. But I wonder what's inside that "black box"? 

 

[sodderboy]

I've got a pair of Neve 1060's sitting right next to me along with schemo's.

Needs iron in front and back.

Mark

Polarize that PSU correctly, son.
Mike

 

[danjpiscina]

Definitely. We use the term "cloning" often but in actuality we are never cloning anything. Gear people make at home will always be DIY and not worth what the originals are worth. And they will always sound different. DIY'ers do not pose a real threat on gear manufacturers. Bottom line: we are not breaking any law or hurting anyone by making a couple of Germanium mic pre's! Let's do it!

Here are a few more pics if anyone is interested. Apologies for having to use an iPhone as a camera!

 

[Moby]

Anyone have any schematics?

Disassemble that black box mate 

 

[lotus]

Please if you can lift that black cover and take a pic.Id like to see how many transistors are used?Thanks Eric

 

[danjpiscina]

Please if you can lift that black cover and take a pic.Id like to see how many transistors are used?Thanks Eric

I really wish I could. Unfortunately I no longer have that pre amp available. Anyone else? It's a pretty common mic pre.

 

[Gus]

Why don't you design your own?

http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/archive/pdffiles/monographs/bbc_monographs_listing.pdf

look at 26 and 46 for some ideas.

Look how old the papers are.

 

[Rochey]

s long as we don't make 1,000 of them and sell them as "Chandler" there shouldn't be a problem.

I have serious doubts that they are selling thousands of them. At the "boutique" level of Pro Audio (where Chandler is), manufacturers build "hundreds" per year, rather than thousands. So yes, each one you clone, it taking food out of peoples mouths.
(I've looked into some of the numbers required to support a small business in the Pro market. Assuming you have 3 folks in your business (designer, assembler, shipping) - you'd need to hit a profit level of at least $100K a year. How many products do you need to sell to pay those people?)

Also look at the way that board has been made. A high volume (1K per year+) would use discrete PCB's to even hold the connectors at the back. The fact that it's hand wired outside the central PCB suggests that each of these units has been hand assembled, by someone who really cares about the quality of the product. The assembly alone would likely take a few hours...

What I'm trying to say is that this looks like a design and manufacture that was done with a "DIY-type" mentality.
I would far prefer to see a fresh design done by someone on here (like Analag or New York Dave) that could be kitted and pcb'd. (and remain conscience clean!)

Cheers

R

 

[phatmateo]

Isn't the black box filled with some sort of epoxy to avoid cloning anyways?  That PCB looks great btw.  Wade, if you are around, nice job

 

[danjpiscina]

I have serious doubts that they are selling thousands of them. At the "boutique" level of Pro Audio (where Chandler is), manufacturers build "hundreds" per year, rather than thousands. So yes, each one you clone, it taking food out of peoples mouths.
(I've looked into some of the numbers required to support a small business in the Pro market. Assuming you have 3 folks in your business (designer, assembler, shipping) - you'd need to hit a profit level of at least $100K a year. How many products do you need to sell to pay those people?)

Also look at the way that board has been made. A high volume (1K per year+) would use discrete PCB's to even hold the connectors at the back. The fact that it's hand wired outside the central PCB suggests that each of these units has been hand assembled, by someone who really cares about the quality of the product. The assembly alone would likely take a few hours...

What I'm trying to say is that this looks like a design and manufacture that was done with a "DIY-type" mentality.
I would far prefer to see a fresh design done by someone on here (like Analag or New York Dave) that could be kitted and pcb'd. (and remain conscience clean!)

Cheers

R

Yes. Good points. All Chandler stuff is clearly hand-made. But isn't the vast majority of pro audio gear hand-made anyway? Anything class-A discrete pretty much has to be. I wasn't necessarily talking about cloning per-se. At the end of the day, Chandler took ideas from other vintage mic pre's to come up with this design. We can take from it, add to it, change it around a little, and make it our own! Maybe we can even make it better!

By the way, Chandler was (almost?) sued by EMI for taking Abbey Road's design of the TG1 and for putting their logo on it.

I really don't feel like we'll be digging in to anyone's profits by doing this.

 

[Biasrocks]

I've got a pair of Neve 1060's sitting right next to me along with schemo's.

Needs iron in front and back.

Mark

Polarize that PSU correctly, son.
Mike

Yep, already done.

-24 volts check.



Mark