DIY Germanium Mic Pre?

[Jonte Knif]

Isn't the black box filled with some sort of epoxy to avoid cloning anyways

Of course it is. Not just for making cloning difficult but to stabilize temperatures and make the DOA mechanically solid. So just forget it and design your own. Cloning mentality sucks in my opinion.

1) Cloning or loosely copying boutique stuff is proven to produce units ending to the market. And I can smell some self deception is these cloning talks.
2) Cloning (or what ever you call it) is not intellectually rewarding. You ain't gonna learn anything apart form soldering.

You can't patent a simple circuit like that. It's just a bit unethical to clone it and make data available here for everyone to see, since it's still putting food on someone's table.

Actually most patents are simple. And if something is patented, the data is by default public.
The most important reason not patenting your innovations is cost. Then you just have to face the fact that anyone can copy it _and_ sell it. Trademark issues are another thing, they have nothing to do with patenting.

I would actually like to know how legal it is to discuss, counter-engineer, clone, distribute or provide components, PCB:s etc. for a commercial available product. Things are very simply legal when someone copies anything for him self, alone, whether it is a car, cell phone, or barbie. Hmmm... I wanna Barbie and Ken, lets clone them! With some genetic engineering we might even make them look still better

This kind of community of hobbyist cloners might be quite recent phenomenon and it would be delighting to know where the border is. And now I'm talking about designs which do have legal protection. Of course you can clone anything if the patents have expired. But if not? And how can anyone claim they have the intellectual rights to products made in the 60's which were never patented? Any experts here?

 

[PRR]

> looks astonishingly simple to build

Black lump, chassis, wire.... easy!

I wonder if the black lump is solid, or is hiding something?

IMHO, most Ge preamps were unexciting. Maybe I never used them right.

I suppose Wade has done the listening and found a scheme he likes. We can X-ray the block and steal his result... he'll never waste his time with unpaid research again. Or we could consider paying the price asked (I have not looked it up). Or we could build preamps and decide for ourselves what works and what does not.

Any fool can build a simple preamp. The BBC even explained it:

Transistor Amplifiers for Sound Broadcasting Aug-59
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/archive/pdffiles/monographs/bbc_monograph_26.pdf

 

[danjpiscina]

The thing about germanium pre's is that there's no middle ground. They're either horrible or terrific! (RCA used germanium back in the 60's and those modular mic pre's I heard we're pretty bad). But these are definitely useful and the feedback loop is one of a kind.

 

[emrr]

Well, you're on the wrong track already, I think.  The RCA and the GE germanium preamps are really good.  I'm definitely not the only fan.  And, they're still so cheap to buy, there's almost no point in starting from scratch.  Though there is a thread here about a modern RCA inspired germanium build.  Did you find that? 

 

[danjpiscina]

Well it's subjective. I think the RCA's sound pretty bad when A/B'd with the Chandler Germanium and that's partly why I wanted to build them! There's a really good reason to start from scratch!

 

[clintrubber]

I wonder if the black lump is solid, or is hiding something?

The virtue of this kind of gear is obviously in how a (likely relatively low) number of components is arranged & tweaked, so that needs to be paid for, no discussion.

But if I were to buy it I’d sure be appreciating the presence of the black lump, otherwise we would know what’s actually the relevant circuit & I constantly would be reminded that the essence of this box is BOM-wise pretty low 


Or at least it _could_ have been a pretty low BOM; in a way it actually irritates me a bit when _some_ boutique manufacturers overdo things at the expense of the buyer.

I mean the additional spending of a few tens of dollars on things that are not needed from a technically point of view, but help making the box look impressive inside & out, and even come in handy in an attempt to further justify the asking price…
But this amount further increases the selling price –and likely also ends up in the list of selling points, fooling non-tech people (no examples needed; just build a few sentences with ‘…for maximum signal integrity’, ‘true’, ‘NOS’, ‘hand-selected’, ‘doubly reinforced’ etc…)


Enough, best regards,

  Peter

 

[Biasrocks]

Here's the Neve equivalent of the black box

 

[Biasrocks]

And

 

[Moby]

Here's the Neve equivalent of the black box

Thanks for posting. Are you sure what's inside or you just suspect? I can't see that your last name is C*h*a*n*d*l*e*r  

 

[VoiceOverMike]

Well, you're on the wrong track already, I think.  The RCA and the GE germanium preamps are really good.   I'm definitely not the only fan.   And, they're still so cheap to buy, there's almost no point in starting from scratch.  Though there is a thread here about a modern RCA inspired germanium build.  Did you find that? 

I'm a fan of the RCA germanium preamps too.

Here is the Pre I think you were speaking of Doug.  I wish this would hurry up and finish:  http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=28546.0

 

[Kid Squid]

I've got a pair of Neve 1060's sitting right next to me along with schemo's.

Needs iron in front and back.

Mark

Would it be possible to get a copy of the schemo's please Mark ?
I got a 1060 rack up coming soon, and I can't find the service manuals anywhere.......

Kindest Regards,
Steve

 

[strangeandbouncy]

FTAO Biasrocks,


  Hi Mark,  what iron do you need? I've got some Gardners trannies going loopy on the shelf. I remember seeing Gardners on the input to some 1059's once upon a blue moon ago. They might not have been original. I remember seeing green Marinaire "round" octal based inputs on 106(4?)'s, so perhaps they aren't authentic. Ho Hum. Let me know what model you need if they are Gardners! I have a few of different types.


  Kindest regards,


      ANdyP

 

[Biasrocks]

Pm'ed you.

Mark

 

[Biasrocks]

Would it be possible to get a copy of the schemo's please Mark ?
I got a 1060 rack up coming soon, and I can't find the service manuals anywhere.......

Kindest Regards,
Steve

Hi Steve,

I have a bunch of info on the Germanium modules. Unfortunately, not a specific schemo for the 1060's but certainly for similar modules (1057,1058, etc). I'd be happy to forward a copy of the info I have.

Mark

 

[ppa]

respect the silicon bjt is a bit more difficult done modern circuitry using the germanium transistors.
I've designed an DOA using both germanium and silicon bipolar transistors using a modern topology circuitry like the APP2050. I can say that the germanium version of APP2050 sound better than the silicon version.
It has extremely hot sound as hot tube preamp but with a different sound look but it has very fast transients that the tube amp have not. Moreover it has high dynamics. Are the old circuitries bad or the germanium transistors?  

Pier Paolo

 

[leadbreath]

ppa, is there any chance u could share the schematic with us?
im very interested in germanium gear.

much appreciated

 

[ppa]

ppa, is there any chance u could share the schematic with us?
im very interested in germanium gear.

much appreciated

sorry, I use a stage (used inside quasi-all my opamps) to reduce the THD that I would not want divulgate.
Moreover, I would want to do a germanium preamp with this opamp, I'm just waiting the board from PCB factory to make this one. I have a bit fear of chinese companies.
However, this opamp is cheap so I think it is not a problem to buy it for many people.

At this point I think the fear of chandler limited maybe is the asiatic  companies that can destroy in a few time an occidental company making cheaper price.

Pier Paolo

 

[simonsez]

At this point I think the fear of chandler limited maybe is the asiatic  companies that can destroy in a few time an occidental company making cheaper price.

Pier Paolo
[/quote]

That's not an issue if chandler thing is not very overpriced.

 

[leadbreath]

no problem pier,i fully understand ur concerns, good luck with ur endevour.

would u be offering these opamps for sale here?

mickey

 

[ppa]

no problem pier,i fully understand ur concerns, good luck with ur endevour.

would u be offering these opamps for sale here?

mickey

I intend to sell a complete germanium preamp. It will be also available in kit, first I will sell the boards and the opamps only. These boards are a new preamp board and the PSU I'm selling in this moment.
The preamp board can use several input (famous) transformers: some lundhal,  cinemag, jensen, OEP, sowter and others. The output transformers can be some cinemag and jensen and others. I intend to make cheap prices.

Pier Paolo