DIY TT/Bantam Cables

[john12ax7]

TT and long frame are made for reliable frequent plugging and unplugging, regular TRS is not. Technically long frame is superior to TT, but you get more space with TT so most go with that.

Making TT cables does not seem fun. Have also had issues with cheaper brands. Imo there are much better returns on diy equity than making TT cables, if you can get quality pre-made ones for $10 that is a good price and well worth it.

 

[Rob Flinn]

thank you for that. always good to learn new stuff. As you have done both kinds from Neutrik. Is there an advantage to the one you mention?

I think the ones that need the expensive tool are probably better. I bought some probably 15 or 20 years ago not realising I would need the tool. I tried closing them up various ways without the tool and they never closed properly. Therefore I have been using the type you were talking about since.

 

[Rob Flinn]

In my opinion Long frame or B gauge as they are also known are the best patchbays. It's mainly a question of how much real estate you have available.

I only switched to bantam because my console has a built in bantam patch bay. Before getting this current console I used to have a massive B gauge bay.

 

[kags]

To be clear the type that need the special tool are these https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/np3tt-1-b
& this is the tool you need https://www.neutrik.com/en/product/hx-tt-1 which in the U.K is available for £520 excluding VAT (ouch) from Canford audio. £520 is actually the cheapest U.K price, I have seen them for much more than that !!

I have terminated loads of the other type (https://www.canford.co.uk/Products/43-198_NEUTRIK-NP3TT-P-B-BANTAM-JACK-PLUG-Black) that you are talking about & they are no problem. I always specify them when I build cables for clients.

I have used the Neutrik NP3TT-P and Redco TTS without crimping. I just solder the shield to the inside of the connector so the cover slides on properly. Sometimes a client wants TT to xlr, trs, or whatever and I don't have a crimper with me, so I make them without crimping. I haven't had any of these fail over several years, so as long as they're not grossly mishandled, they'll work fine.

 

[Brian Roth]

When I was still doing "Studio House Calls" (as friend and Forum member @Ike Zimbel calls the biz <g>) I had to carry with me a variety of connection options to get in and out of studio equipment and my test gear. Many years ago, I bought some pre-made Mogami (IIRC) molded TT cables in 6' lengths. Cut them in half and attached XLRs.

Since most scopes and a lot of test gear use BNCs, I do own the tooling to crimp BNC onto coax. Solder desired audio connectors on the other end....except TT. My chopped TT cable solved that.
(Except for things like "balanced" audio gear that barfs into the unbalanced scope, lifting pin 1, yada yada,)

Sidebar...I built two Frankencables each with two BNCs on coax cables to one XLR female at the other ends to use the dual scope inputs as a diff amp. Fiddly to adjust. but gives me bandwidth to the scope's limit.

ANYWAY....the old "tinsel" conductors in older cloth sheathed TT cables always seemed impossible for me to solder. Before someone barks at me because I fought with tinsel wire, save your breath. I moved on long ago. Life is too short! lol

Bri

 

[thelivingroom]

I used to buy the JDS Promotions molded TT cables on eBay, but they were either out of stock for a while or stopped selling them, so I started making my own.

I use Canare L4E5C cable (red, green, orange, blue, yellow, and black) and Neutrik NP3TT-P-AU connectors. I also buy the Neutrik colored boots from Redco to match the corresponding cable colors.

At first I was tediously soldering the shield to the connector, but got the proper crimp tool and find it much easier. I bought this Eclipse crimper from Redco:
https://www.redco.com/Eclipse-300-054.html

And this die for it:
https://www.redco.com/Eclipse-902-201.html

They aren’t cheap, but they feel bulletproof. Once I get in a rhythm it goes quickly.

 

[tgs]

+1. I do same as Pucho. Must be an LA thing. I’ve tried Hosa- about 20% were wired to invert polarity and all failed within a few weeks of regular use. That was 10 years ago, so maybe they’ve gotten better.

I see reports like this now and then and it kind of makes me wonder what people do with their cables. Seriously though: I've been using Hosa patch cables for ages, TRS ones up until maybe 5 years ago when I finally went over to TT, and from then on Hosa TT cables. Never had any with polarity reversed, none of the TT cables have failed yet (out of around 60) and maybe had 1% of TRS cable failure over some 25 odd years. I'm not disputing anyone's experience, could be bad batches, different factories and whatnot. But with TT especially, patch cable costs stack up quickly if you need a lot and the Hosa ones don't seem to have much competition.

 

[tgs]

These don't require that tool just an RG58 crimping tool: NP3TT-P-AU-B - assembly instructions here

I can recommend those, easy to solder if you follow the instructions (don't improvise). The sleeve looks a bit flimsy when you open the baggie but they're very sturdy when assembled.

 

[Newmarket]

So am I missing something when Samson TRS patch bays are 85 bucks on reverb? DIY TRS cables are dirt cheap. Got 5 switchcraft 9625 bays with my console purchase and wondering what the main reason is to go forward with TT besides it being "pro industry standard"

Connection density. Panel space.

 

[Rob Flinn]

Connection density. Panel space.

& as many people are intimating but without actually saying it "TRS bays are crap in comparison to B Gauge or TT". There I said it, sorry if I offended anyone...

 

[pucho812]

& as many people are intimating but without actually saying it "TRS bays are crap in comparison to B Gauge or TT". There I said it, sorry if I offended anyone...

All true and I highly doubt anyone around these parts will be offended at that statement.

 

[kags]

I see reports like this now and then and it kind of makes me wonder what people do with their cables. Seriously though: I've been using Hosa patch cables for ages, TRS ones up until maybe 5 years ago when I finally went over to TT, and from then on Hosa TT cables. Never had any with polarity reversed, none of the TT cables have failed yet (out of around 60) and maybe had 1% of TRS cable failure over some 25 odd years. I'm not disputing anyone's experience, could be bad batches, different factories and whatnot. But with TT especially, patch cable costs stack up quickly if you need a lot and the Hosa ones don't seem to have much competition.

In a commercial studio everything is handled more roughly than you’d expect. Anything that can be broken will be broken. Usually in a shocking manner! TT ends get bent, cables get cut by chair wheels and doors, mic stands get stripped, knobs removed, wine and worse spilled into racks. Last year a flat screen tv was cracked during a session!!

We bill clients and labels for negligent damage, but lots of unbillable wear and tear.

 

[MidnightArrakis]

TT and long frame are made for reliable frequent plugging and unplugging, regular TRS is not. Technically long frame is superior to TT, but you get more space with TT so most go with that.

Making TT cables does not seem fun. Have also had issues with cheaper brands. Imo there are much better returns on diy equity than making TT cables, if you can get quality pre-made ones for $10 that is a good price and well worth it.

[TT and long frame are made for reliable frequent plugging and unplugging] -- The "Bantam Jack" (AKA "TT" or "Tiny Telephone" jack) was invented and patented in 1878 for use in an early manual telephone exchange switchboard installed in New Haven, CT.



By 1907, Western Electric had designed a number of models for different purposes, including:


By 1950, the two main plug designs were:

WE-309 (compatible with 3⁄16-inch jacks, such as 246 jack), for use on high-density jack panels such as the 608A
WE-310 (compatible with 1⁄4-inch jacks, such as the 242)
Several modern designs have descended from those earlier versions:

B-Gauge standard BPO316 (not compatible with EIA RS-453)
EIA RS-453: Dimensional, Mechanical and Electrical Characteristics Defining Phone Plugs & Jacks standard of 0.206 in (5.2 mm) diameter, also found in IEC 60603-11:1992 Connectors for frequencies below 3 MHz for use with printed boards – Part 11: Detail specification for concentric connectors (dimensions for free connectors and fixed connectors).

Miniature size
The 3.5 mm or miniature size was originally designed in the 1950s as two-conductor connectors for earpieces on transistor radios, and remains a standard still used today. This roughly half-sized version of the original, popularized by the Sony EFM-117J radio (released in 1964),[24][25][failed verification] is still commonly used in portable applications and has a length of 15 millimeters (0.59 in). The three-conductor version became very popular with its application on the Walkman in 1979, as unlike earlier transistor radios, these devices had no speaker of their own; the usual way to listen to them was to plug in headphones. There is also an EIA standard for 0.141-inch miniature phone jacks.

The 2.5 mm or sub-miniature sizes were similarly popularized on small portable electronics. They often appeared next to a 3.5 mm microphone jack for a remote control on-off switch on early portable tape recorders; the microphone provided with such machines had the on-off switch and used a two-pronged connector with both the 3.5 and 2.5 mm plugs. They were also used for low-voltage DC power input from wall adapters. In the latter role, they were soon replaced by coaxial DC power connectors. 2.5 mm phone jacks have also been used as headset jacks on mobile telephones (see § Mobile devices).

The 1⁄8 in and 1⁄10 in sizes, approximately 3.5 mm and 2.5 mm respectively in mm, though those dimensions are only approximations. All sizes are now readily available in two-conductor (unbalanced mono) and three-conductor (balanced mono or unbalanced stereo) versions.

Four-conductor versions of the 3.5 mm plug and jack are used for certain applications. A four-conductor version is often used in compact camcorders and portable media players, providing stereo sound and composite analog video. It is also used for a combination of stereo audio, a microphone, and controlling media playback, calls, volume and/or a virtual assistant on some laptop computers and most mobile phones and some handheld amateur radio transceivers from Yaesu. Some headphone amplifiers have used it to connect balanced stereo headphones, which require two conductors per audio channel as the channels do not share a common ground.

Broadcast usage
By the 1940s, broadcast radio stations were using Western Electric Code No. 103 plugs and matching jacks for patching audio throughout studios. This connector was used because of its use in AT&T's Long Line circuits for the distribution of audio programs over the radio networks' leased telephone lines. Because of the large amount of space these patch panels required, the industry began switching to 3-conductor plugs and jacks in the late 1940s, using the WE Type 291 plug with WE type 239 jacks.

The type 291 plug was used instead of the standard type 110 switchboard plug because the location of the large bulb shape on this TRS plug would have resulted in both audio signal connections being shorted together for a brief moment while the plug was being inserted and removed. The Type 291 plug avoids this by having a shorter tip.

Patch bay connectors
Professional audio and the telecommunication industry use a 0.173 in (4.4 mm) diameter plug, associated with trademarked names including Bantam, TT, Tiny-Telephone, and Tiny-Tel. They are not compatible with standard EIA RS-453/IEC 60603-11 1⁄4-inch jacks. In addition to a slightly smaller diameter, they have a slightly different geometry. The three-conductor TRS versions are capable of handling balanced signals and are used in professional audio installations. Though unable to handle as much power, and less reliable than a 6.35 mm (1⁄4 in) jack, Bantam connectors are used for mixing console and outboard patch-bays in recording studio and live sound applications, where large numbers of patch points are needed in a limited space.[31] The slightly different shape of Bantam plugs is also less likely to cause shorting as they are plugged in.[citation needed]

Less common
A dual 310 patch cable, two-pin phone plug


A two-pin version, known to the telecom industry as a "310 connector", consists of two 1⁄4-inch phone plugs at a center spacing of 5⁄8 inch (16 mm). The socket versions of these can be used with normal phone plugs provided the plug bodies are not too large, but the plug version will only mate with two sockets at 5⁄8 inches center spacing, or with line sockets, again with sufficiently small bodies. These connectors are still used today in telephone company central offices on "DSX" patch panels for DS1 circuits. A similar type of 3.5 mm connector is often used in the armrests of older aircraft, as part of the on-board in-flight entertainment system. Plugging a stereo plug into one of the two mono jacks typically results in the audio coming into only one ear. Adapters are available.

A short-barreled version of the phone plug was used for 20th-century high-impedance mono headphones, and in particular those used in World War II aircraft. These have become rare. It is physically possible to use a normal plug in a short socket, but a short plug will neither lock into a normal socket nor complete the tip circuit.

Less commonly used sizes, both diameters and lengths, are also available from some manufacturers, and are used when it is desired to restrict the availability of matching connectors, such as 0.210-inch (5.3 mm) inside diameter jacks for fire safety communication in public buildings.

Decline of phone connector sockets in consumer goods
While phone connectors remain a standard connector type in some fields, such as desktop computers, musical instrument amplification and live audio and recording equipment, they have been removed from many smartphones.

Digital audio is now common and may be transmitted via USB sound cards, USB headphones, Bluetooth, display connectors with integrated sound (e.g. DisplayPort and HDMI). Digital devices may also have internal speakers and mics. Thus the phone connector is sometimes considered redundant and a waste of space, particularly on thinner mobile devices. And while low-profile surface-mount sockets waterproofed up to 1 meter exist, removing the socket entirely facilitates waterproofing.

>> SO, KIDS!!!.....This wraps up today's lesson on the different types of jacks and specifically, the "Bantam" or "TT" jack!!!

SO LONG!!!.....

/

 

[C.B. - Boudio]

Small sidenote: why not revive something like the old German broadcast system (I think the REDD consoles used it as well)? That 'matrix' system, I don't really know what it was called. Takes up more space, but it seems way less cluttered and eliminates cable hassle.

 

[moamps]

......Anything that can be broken will be broken. Usually in a shocking manner! TT ends get bent, cables get cut by chair wheels and doors, mic stands get stripped, knobs removed, wine and worse spilled into racks.....

And the little, "sweet" puppies that the talents bring in really like to nibble and chew on the headphone cables that accidentally stretch out on the floor while their owners struggle to sing two or three rhymes correctly.