Dynamic Kick Drum Mic

[JimJhn]

How well this works will depend on the Thiele-Small parameters of the speaker, specifically the F(s), or self-resonant frequency.

The NS10 woofer that’s so commonly used has a F(s) of 58Hz. When excited, it rings a bit longer at that frequency, adding a small bit of 808-like character to a kick drum that’s helpful in a small range of use cases.

A different speaker would resonate at a different frequency, which may or may not work as well.

In any case, the OP mentions “jazz,” and assuming we’re talking about “the tradition that includes Max Roach, Philly Joe Jones, Art Blakey, Roy Haynes, Elvin Jones et al,” I’m not sure a subkick would be something I’d lean on heavily.

On the other hand, OP also mentions the D112, which would likewise not be my first pull for such a situation, so perhaps I’m making incorrect assumptions about what they mean by “jazz”

I am VERY interested in this!

I do mean exactly that era of jazz! And the guys you specifically mention, especially Roy Haynes, who is sort of the "young man" in the guys you mention.

Coming more from the musician end of things, I'm not too sophisticated with the microphone end of life, though this is precisely why I read this forum now to learns some new things.

I only know engineers putting up different kick mics sometimes, and the D112 always seemed the most natural for hearing a bass-drum the way I hear drums (and more natural than the Shure, at least to me), so it's been something I can tell them and know it will sound at least OK.

What other mics do you like for this? I would love to try some others. And maybe mod something I have around, which is also why I was interested.

 

[OneRoomStudio]

The NS10 woofer that’s so commonly used has a F(s) of 58Hz. When excited, it rings a bit longer at that frequency, adding a small bit of 808-like character to a kick drum that’s helpful in a small range of use cases.

A different speaker would resonate at a different frequency, which may or may not work as well.

I wonder how the other Thiele-Small parameters affect the response of a speaker as a microphone. Would speakers with higher sensitivity (i.e., dB @ 2.83V/1m) have more sensitivity as a microphone? How does the Xmax and/or mechanical/electromagnetic Q impact the response to sound waves?

There are some interesting (and cheap) speakers out there with appropriate resonant frequencies, but I have no idea how they would perform as microphones.

Examples:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-Cone-Midbass-Woofer-4-Ohm-295-415?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerl...r-Cone-SDS-Woofer-4-Ohm-264-1590?quantity=500

 

[Paul W]

I wonder how the other Thiele-Small parameters affect the response of a speaker as a microphone. Would speakers with higher sensitivity (i.e., dB @ 2.83V/1m) have more sensitivity as a microphone? How does the Xmax and/or mechanical/electromagnetic Q impact the response to sound waves?

There are some interesting (and cheap) speakers out there with appropriate resonant frequencies, but I have no idea how they would perform as microphones.

Examples:
https://www.parts-express.com/Dayto...-Cone-Midbass-Woofer-4-Ohm-295-415?quantity=1
https://www.parts-express.com/Peerl...r-Cone-SDS-Woofer-4-Ohm-264-1590?quantity=500

I've collected a couple of old woofers just because I liked the thump they made when I tapped them with my finger. Haven't gotten around to trying them, though.

I'm thinking you could also lower the resonant frequency (and decrease sensitivity) a bit by adding a little mass to the speaker cone.

 

[Rowboat]

Just record it with whatever you have to hand but preferably with high directionality. Then use sample replacement
I'll get my coat...

 

[Paul W]

Short of kick replacement, you can also just trigger a sample of a low tone, to add bottom to the miked sound. Then you can pick a frequency that particularly complements the timbre of the particular drum (not that I know how to do that), and adjust the decay to suit. One article I read talked about just using a 50 Hz tone and I guess that would probably be fine b/c people's pitch perception down there is not good and it's a not-very-pitched drum anyhow.

 

[CalavoBob]

That traditional "jazz" kick sound is as much due to a well tuned drum set as it is the mic. Both heads would be on the well tuned kick and the mic would not be on the beater side, but out front and not too close.

 

[soapfoot]

What other mics do you like for this? I would love to try some others. And maybe mod something I have around, which is also why I was interested.

I really like the U47FET and its descendants

For a moving-coil dynamic, i really like the Beyerdynamic M88

 

[Tubetec]

For me the EV RE-20 is king of the dynamics ,
especially on kick , the off axis rejection prevents top kit spill ,
albeit with a small rear lobe , which can be very effectively managed with acoustic screens or facing the kit off into a far corner .
I never liked the AKG D12...series , they always required way to much EQ to get them into sonic shape .

Beyer M88 definate thumbs up on that , and not just as a kick drum mic , Id say its one of the best dynamics ever ,

 

[beatsnblunts]

If you can scramble up some money, the Heil PR40 won't disappoint you at all.

yes it will!
to each their own but i found the high end on the Heils to sound plastic like…cheap.

 

[beatsnblunts]

200$ for a good dynamic is very inexpensive and for that or less you can pick up a number of dynamic kick mics used.

602,d112, D6, beta91…

the Alien8 is a fantastic mic similar to the old beyer 380 and sounds fantastic but is a little over that price point. DIY w a headphone driver should be pretty inexpensive….

 

[Whoops]

200$ for a good dynamic is very inexpensive

Thats it

 

[CalavoBob]

I used to use an SM58 in close with the windscreen ball removed. Sounded pretty good in some rock n roll situations. Not bad for $100. It got a little more snap that way but retained a husky low end.

 

[ruffrecords]

My favourite is the AKG D190E. Punchy with just the right amount of smack.

Cheers

Ian

 

[zzzzz]

If I could only use one dynamic kick mic for the rest of my life, it would be Audio Technica ATM25

 

[Tubetec]

Theres one thing I hate more than anything , its when the kick has more top end than the snare ,
I blame him ,
theres no need for all the grimacing and grinding of teeth either .

 

[Whoops]

Theres one thing I hate more than anything , its when the kick has more top end than the snare

That high end, to enhance the click, It’s very useful for Metal music.
It seems the situation is that you don’t like Metal music.

I’m also not a Metal fan and don’t use over hyped kick drum mics like the Audix D6, but I respect other music styles and I respect the engineering needs and technics for their particular music. I respect all music even if it’s not my taste.

As far as I can see it this is a matter of respecting or not, and it’s a matter of understand or not different technics.
You “hate” so you don’t respect other music styles and don’t understand other peoples needs in terms of engineering

 

[SubSpec]

Unrelated to the matter at hand, but I've yet to find a rear kick mic that I blend more than the batter side condenser (87 style / Perception 220 modded). I've tried quite a few on the rear but for my tonal preferences I'm only ever taking some oomph from the rear mic and blending that to underscore the batter mic, which is doing almost everything I want on it's own.

 

[JeffKall]

I really like the U47FET and its descendants

For a moving-coil dynamic, i really like the Beyerdynamic M88

For me the EV RE-20 is king of the dynamics ,
especially on kick , the off axis rejection prevents top kit spill ,
albeit with a small rear lobe , which can be very effectively managed with acoustic screens or facing the kit off into a far corner .
I never liked the AKG D12...series , they always required way to much EQ to get them into sonic shape .

Beyer M88 definate thumbs up on that , and not just as a kick drum mic , Id say its one of the best dynamics ever ,

Of all the kick mics I have personally experienced … I loved the U47FET and I WISH I still had access to one …

But as I said, I am quite happy with my RE20/Beta 91A combo …

I would have liked to have had access to a Beyer M380 … having watched Steve Albini’s drum recording video … and out of great respect for him and his work … I would agree with his choice … and would like to either acquire one or do the DIY version one day (I have a pair of 600 ohm DT-990’s that were accidentally (at least I THINK it was an accident ) stepped on and broken in half by a guitar player) …

I am also curious about Steve’s use of a lav mic on the batter head as a “click” EQ …

Happy recording !!!

 

[scondon]

Unrelated to the matter at hand, but I've yet to find a rear kick mic that I blend more than the batter side condenser (87 style / Perception 220 modded). I've tried quite a few on the rear but for my tonal preferences I'm only ever taking some oomph from the rear mic and blending that to underscore the batter mic, which is doing almost everything I want on it's own.

Interesting, how do you position it?

 

[Gavin Pursinger]

I really like my RE27. It has that
snappy neodymium scratch that my RE20 doesn't. IT feeds a beastly broadcast line amp for front end. Roll off switches tame it for softer or jazzy kicks.
Moves alot of air in playback