Eagle Lessons

[Gold]

It's about time for me to learn how to lay out a PCB. It's getting to the point where I have to. PCB 123 and the like are PC only. I'm more comfortable on a Mac.  If there is a board house with online software for mac I'd use it but I don't think there is. I think I should start using Eagle. I am a computer idiot and I have no experience with graphics software.

Is there anyone in NYC (Brooklyn) who would be willing to give me a few (paid) lessons. I'm looking to have the mechanics explained to me so I can get past square one. I don't expect to  be doing 10 layer mixed signal PCB's any time soon. Any takers?

 

[Rochey]

if you don't find anyone local, I'd be happy to do some online interactive ones with you.

 

[Andy Peters]

It's about time for me to learn how to lay out a PCB. It's getting to the point where I have to. PCB 123 and the like are PC only. I'm more comfortable on a Mac.  If there is a board house with online software for mac I'd use it but I don't think there is. I think I should start using Eagle. I am a computer idiot and I have no experience with graphics software.

FWIW, the recent stable version of Kicad works like a champ on OS X. Get it from here. I've done three successful board designs with it in the last few months, and two more are being tabbed as we type.

The learning curve is probably no different from any other PCB design package if you've got no prior experience.

With any PCB package, you will have to deal with the library system. I have built up a pretty extensive set of libraries, which I am glad to share (with anyone).

 

[Gold]

FWIW, the recent stable version of Kicad works like a champ on OS X. Get it from here. I've done three successful board designs with it in the last few months, and two more are being tabbed as we type.

The learning curve is probably no different from any other PCB design package if you've got no prior experience.

With any PCB package, you will have to deal with the library system. I have built up a pretty extensive set of libraries, which I am glad to share (with anyone).

The reasons I thought Eagle was the way to go were that it is popular and starts off cheap. My experience with open source has always been that you have to be willing to kick it to make it work or it's clunky in some way. You get what you pay for. I'd believe you Andy if you said it's  like a commercial product but open source. I have a lot of things in my life I have to kick to make work. I want software to be well thought out and as easy as possible to operate.

 

[john12ax7]

You might also consider diptrace, they have a free version to start with.

If you are starting out try a few different programs, eagle, diptrace, kicad, etc. Usually people will find one or the other more intuitive for their needs.

 

[SkunkFunk]

You might also consider diptrace

+1

My personal experience is that DipTrace is much easier to start with, but still can do the same stuff as Eagle. I might be bit of a fanboy, but I think Eagle has a really poor graphical interface (no auto-selection of tools, you have to select the tool in the left bar or by right-clicking for trivial stuff such as moving or copying a component. There is no default action when you hover, as maybe was the standard in 1995), badly structured standard component libraries and creating your own components has many innecessary steps. Diptrace is much faster to work with in these aspects. And the Eagle interface overall looks like it has not been updated since 1995...

 

[dfuruta]

I also use (and quite like) Kicad.  The community (on the user group mailing list) is helpful, and there are good tutorials up on youtube.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I've used a number of PCB design tools over the decades, including exacto knifes and tape on vellum. 

The first PCB layout software I bought was something like $500 back in the 1980's (tango? PC based). At Peavey we used mainframe workstation based software, but cheaper PC based schematic capture (our engineers wrote routines to convert the PC data to formats acceptable to mainframe, and factory automation.)

After I left Peavey I was given a commercial eagle seat (old version 4.03) to support a customer's project as a consultant.  I am still using that old Eagle software (I'm too cheap to pay for software license upgrade to a newer release). I have to roll all my own library parts and the design rules could get a little limiting, as PCB technology has improved (smaller traces and spaces) than decades ago.

If Andy endorses Kicad I would take that seriously ( even though he hates Microchip  ;D ). They all require secret handshakes you will need to learn. I may consider Kicad when my design needs eclipse what my old Eagle version can support.  For now I prefer to avoid learning new secret handshakes until I absolutely have to.

JR

 

[Gold]

Thanks guys. I have downloaded Eagle, Kicad and DIptrace. I'll give each one a go and see if I like one better than the others.

 

[zamproject]

FWIW, the recent stable version of Kicad works like a champ on OS X. Get it from here. I've done three successful board designs with it in the last few months, and two more are being tabbed as we type.

The learning curve is probably no different from any other PCB design package if you've got no prior experience.

With any PCB package, you will have to deal with the library system. I have built up a pretty extensive set of libraries, which I am glad to share (with anyone).

The reasons I thought Eagle was the way to go were that it is popular and starts off cheap. My experience with open source has always been that you have to be willing to kick it to make it work or it's clunky in some way. You get what you pay for. I'd believe you Andy if you said it's  like a commercial product but open source. I have a lot of things in my life I have to kick to make work. I want software to be well thought out and as easy as possible to operate.

Kicad is a great opensource software now  and it's not at all a teen/geek one that work, maybe, if you are able to compile it and fix code error.
It's a scientific and university community, now the CERN (Geneva) is also part of the dev. I don't think they use toy software to design system and PCB for the biggest particle accelerator 
Best
Zam

 

[Gold]

I did a little playing around last night. I figured a good test was to briefly look at a tutorial for each and then see how far I got with each one. I didn't get past square one with Eagle or KiCAD. I got something that started to look like a schematic with Diptrace. I think the reason I got further with Diptrace is that is has an integrated extensive library. KiCAD said there were libraries included in the download package but I couldn't find them or figure out how to download any. Eagle was just plain confusing to me. I'll give a little while longer but so far Diptrace seems like it would be the best fit.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I did a little playing around last night. I figured a good test was to briefly look at a tutorial for each and then see how far I got with each one. I didn't get past square one with Eagle or KiCAD. I got something that started to look like a schematic with Diptrace. I think the reason I got further with Diptrace is that is has an integrated extensive library. KiCAD said there were libraries included in the download package but I couldn't find them or figure out how to download any. Eagle was just plain confusing to me. I'll give a little while longer but so far Diptrace seems like it would be the best fit.

They all require a learning curve,,, what matters is how easy they are after you get into actually working with them.

Perhaps a better test is to complete a fairly simple board design, not overly complicated but using parts typical to what you might in the future.

or not.... It would be shame to pick one that was easy to get started with but lousy to use.

Note: I do not have a pony in this race, but have a casual interest in your results.

JR

 

[MicDaddy]

Andy I'll take you up on those libraries    thank you very much.

 

[Andy Peters]

I did a little playing around last night. I figured a good test was to briefly look at a tutorial for each and then see how far I got with each one. I didn't get past square one with Eagle or KiCAD. I got something that started to look like a schematic with Diptrace. I think the reason I got further with Diptrace is that is has an integrated extensive library. KiCAD said there were libraries included in the download package but I couldn't find them or figure out how to download any. Eagle was just plain confusing to me. I'll give a little while longer but so far Diptrace seems like it would be the best fit.

The kicad-4.0.1.dmg disk image file includes the Kicad executable and the libraries. You need to drag the Kicad folder to the Applications folder as indicated by the Finder window which pops up when you open the disk image. You also need to drag the kicad (lower-case k) to the Application Support directory, as indicated. Now all of the symbol libraries are available to EESchema. But first you will have to tell EESchema how to find them. You do that by starting EESchema and choose Preferences => Component Libraries. A dialog pops up with a list of the "current" libraries. Those are likely the default, so delete them (select one, click "remove"). Then add the component libraries that interest you by clicking "Add." A Finder file open dialog pops up, and it should be in the /Application Support/kicad/library directory. (Or possibly ~/Application Support/kicad/library directory.) Select a library, click "open," and it's added to the list.

Now when you go to place a symbol on the schematic, choose the library and then choose the part in the library.

For footprints: did you also download the "kicad-extras" disk image? That has all of the footprint libraries and a library table. There is also a short README which explains how to set up the libraries.

Finally,  for those who have asked, I have uploaded a snapshot of my libraries and created a not-as-short-as-I'd-hoped set of installation instructions here.

 

[pucho812]

We are all Mac at work. I think our PCB/cad guy  is mainly mac with is pcb layouts, I'll see what he uses.

 

[dmp]

I was in your shoes a few years ago and I tried both Diptrace and Eagle as well.
I'd recommend Diptrace by far.  I got to the point where I could work in either to design a pcb, but to me, diptrace was far more intuitive and easier to grasp. 
Being an engineer with some familiarity with coding and software design, I was shocked at how poorly designed the UI of Eagle seemed (to me). I think(?) Eagle is the industry leader and perhaps they are taking it for granted.
Diptrace gets a little tricky once you are editing or creating components, but they have nice documentation that walks you through it.

 

[audiomixer]

I bought a DipTrace licence, so I am biased. Eagle is terrible, forget it. KiCad has become a valid solution, free, no limits and so on... Diptrace can import Eagle libraries, even if I have to look up how to do it every time. Eagle Libs are the most complete, so that matters.

If DipTrace works for you I can try to work out some timeslots for some teaching thru skype?

- Michael

 

[Gold]

Diptrace can import Eagle libraries, even if I have to look up how to do it every time. Eagle Libs are the most complete, so that matters.

If DipTrace works for you I can try to work out some timeslots for some teaching thru skype?

- Michael

I'll give KiCAD another shot. I'll read Andy's stuff and be more careful with the installation.

I appreciate the offers for online help but Skype/Factime is too unreliable around here to be anything but massively frustrating. Even if it worked as advertised the horrible compressed audio drives me nuts after 10:00.

 

[audiomixer]

I appreciate the offers for online help but Skype/Factime is too unreliable around here to be anything but massively frustrating. Even if it worked as advertised the horrible compressed audio drives me nuts after 10:00.

I don't like "Fac_Time" either. smile. good luck with KiCad. It's probably the 'future' anyway.

Michael

 

[mjrippe]

For anyone interested in similar things, one of my other favorite websites (www.hackaday.com) is doing a three part intro to SPICE - the circuit simulation software.