Election Integrity

[Matador]

Please, Democrats in Congress, get off your asses and pack the Supreme court to 25 members with term limits (like most other Federal Judicial bodies). There is precedent for this and it is doable, and with sorting of case flow as practiced in the Federal Court of Appeals allows for much more balanced rulings. Then Federal Voters Rights can be established with some confidence that a completely political Supreme court can not play three card Monte with it.

Excellent points!

Setting aside that the court is already "packed" with Federalist Society nutjobs, "packing" isn't even necessary. For example, when the Ninth Circuit Appeals Court begins an en banc review, it includes a single chief justice, and 10 other members assigned at random for that specific case, from a pool of 60 or 70 judges who are spread all over the country. It would be much harder for states to tee up bogus laws in order to get favorable rulings from like-minded SC judges if you don't know who will be serving when it arrives.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Like so many vestiges of a constitution crippled by accommodation to (and created by) slave owners, the concept of each state having different voting rules, rights and infrastructures is absurd and chaotic, and clearly in opposition to more than one constitutional amendment. Voting should be Federally run and regulated like everywhere else in the civilized world, and progress made on the path to "one person one vote" and away from "we know better so by 'representing' the citizens we can keep all the money and power".

We don't want a centralized, single point of failure voting system for a country this large. "Other parts of the civilized world" don't have 330M people with massive diversity spread across an entire continent. That is a ridiculous comparison.

I support a Federal Voting Holidays Federal Voters Rights and voting participation mandates.

I would support a Federal holiday for Election Day (one day to vote). But beyond that you're off your rocker. We already have too many uninformed voters. If it takes some small effort to vote, where's the problem? It takes far more effort to get a driver's license or open a bank account.

Being forced to sign a document that allows a volunteer with no training in graphology to decide if I can vote or go directly to prison for 5 years like we do in Florida is Kafka-esque / draconian.
Why was I even issued a voters registration card? It is completely useless.

Link to law you are referring to, please. In my state we have a voter ID law. Several picture IDs are accepted. If you bring your registration card you still need a photo ID. One proves you're registered, the other proves you're a resident. Simple and effective way to prevent basic fraud. Also no ballot harvesting allowed.

Many are unaware the system in the USA was based on NOT allowing people to vote, easily illustrated in many ways such as the fact that U. S. Senators were appointed by the political power bosses until 1913, and we still suffer from the absurdity of Senate allocation being determined by state lines instead of population making an individuals representation by vote in, say, California equate to something like 1/300 of a vote in North Dakota (sound familiar, Electoral College?)

Ensuring only valid votes are counted is good. Current Federal law allows _any_ citizen to vote (excepting convicted felons). Why are you referring to 150-240 year old law that has already been superceded? Stop living in the past. As for the way the Senate works, that is a good thing, but you simply can't fathom why. We don't want a tyranny of the majority where a few large states control everything, including what goes on in states that have very different concerns. As for the way the Senate was originally elected (by each State's Legislature), that might actually be better than direct voting. But I'm sure you'd disagree. Direct Democracy was intentionally avoided for most elected offices for good reason (see "Tyranny of the Majority"). At the Federal level only the House of Representatives is directly elected, for good reason.

Until there is the political will to bring the good ideas in the Constitution (such as the vast majority of rights are un-enumerated) forward and eliminate the parts that give organizations like the Heritage Foundation and the Federalist Society any ground to stand on for the notion that interpretation is limited to the scope of the time in which it was created (where "cruel and unusual punishment" did not include things like being drawn and quartered or dragged to death) we will keep speeding down the greased slide to corporate and populist Totalitarianism.

I'm not sure what you're on about with the unenumerated rights issue. It's right there in the Constitution as it was ratified (the 10th Amendment, in case you can't find it). Pure direct democracy leads to authoritarianism much more quickly than the system we have. Read some history. Nowhere is it interpreted that "cruel and unusual" is limited by the definition at the time the Constitution was written. The left likes to play language games with the meaning and make it a "living document" at every turn, so be careful where you point your finger.

Please, Democrats in Congress, get off your asses and pack the Supreme court to 25 members with term limits (like most other Federal Judicial bodies). There is precedent for this and it is doable, and with sorting of case flow as practiced in the Federal Court of Appeals allows for much more balanced rulings. Then Federal Voters Rights can be established with some confidence that a completely political Supreme court can not play three card Monte with it.

The Constitution is clear about lifetime appointments on SCOTUS. You want to change that, you'll need to get an Amendment passed. Court packing is pure political BS.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Excellent points!

Setting aside that the court is already "packed" with Federalist Society nutjobs, "packing" isn't even necessary.

Constitutionalists.

For example, when the Ninth Circuit Appeals Court begins an en banc review, it includes a single chief justice, and 10 other members assigned at random for that specific case, from a pool of 60 or 70 judges who are spread all over the country. It would be much harder for states to tee up bogus laws in order to get favorable rulings from like-minded SC judges if you don't know who will be serving when it arrives.

The Ninth has a broken en banc process because its territory has had a population explosion That's one problem that can be solved by redistricting.

The huge negative to the "sampling" approach to high level (i.e., very important) cases is the gross lack of Judicial continuity. I would also point out that the Ninth has the worse decision reversal rate (reversals per x cases) of the federal appeals courts. From 2010-15 79% of Ninth decisions reviewed by SCOTUS were reversed. Hardly something deserving of emulation.

Read the section on rate of overturned decisions here, especially the last paragraph regarding unanimous reversals:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Court_of_Appeals_for_the_Ninth_Circuit

 

[nielsk]

There is no law requiring signing away ones freedom to an Orwellian Catch 22 in order to vote, which is why I have a problem with this having been implemented by Conservative controlled county election administrations in Florida since 2012.
The whole voter fraud issue is moot, there are simple processes that completely eliminate things like the possibility of anyone voting multiple times. The problem lies in county and state controlled voting commissions, each with their own rules imposed by political bodies, allowing for all sorts of voter suppression and fraud (see above).
This is why voting rules and mechanisms will benefit from Federal control to make them consistent and non-partisan.
You are asking to have it both ways, wanting to enjoy un-enumerated rights, but insisting that the Supreme Court interpret the Constitution from an Originalist perspective which only recognizes (barely) rights clearly enumerated in the Constitution in the perspective of the time it was written is not possible.
As to preventing despotism, Jan 6 clearly shows how well that is working. If HSNBN was actually smart, we would be under despotic rule right now.

 

[JohnRoberts]

This is why voting rules and mechanisms will benefit from Federal control to make them consistent and non-partisan.

You are even more optimistic than I am... It is the nature of bureaucracies to fight desperately to stay in power.

As to preventing despotism, Jan 6 clearly shows how well that is working.

The transition of power went forward. Ex President Trump is very upset with good reason, but some of his behavior is inexcusable, as usual.

A New Bipartisan Bill Aims to Reform the Presidential Transition Process​

If HSNBN was actually smart, we would be under despotic rule right now.

I searched HSNBN and did not find an explanation. I will ASSume it is some pejorative slang...

JR

 

[nielsk]

I guess you have not been exposed to Harry Potter or Stephen Colbert...
The problem is not with the 10th amendment or most other amendments, some of them are the best part. Of course if it takes so many amendments to cobble the original document into something that can be lived with, it could well be best to toss the whole thing as their are several existing ones out there that are far superior to replace it with.
The problem is the way biased Supreme Courts have interpreted and ruled on it.
The Constitution does give lifetime appointments to Supreme Court Justices, (a big mistake), but what it does NOT do is give the Supreme Court the right to interpret the Constitution. The Supreme Court gave that to itself. And has done it in some incredibly horrible ways, which become precedent, and re-interpreted, and so on and so on, allowing things like people with enough $ being able to avoid justice.
The fact that the Constitution CAN be amended (just look at the ERA, it may take a long time and suffer the efforts of "those who should be burned in effigy on an annual basis" but it shows that ammendments CAN and WILL be done. And SHOULD be done. On a regular basis.
The whole "isn't it great we can amend the Constitution and isn't it too bad it can't be done" is just another smoke screen, the tyrannical minority spending money on propaganda to convince us it is futile to try and make anything fair or sensible. The fact is the majority of US citizens agree on sensible things, like people should have control of their own bodies, each person should get one vote*, we should not have to live in fear of maniacs with military grade weapons, the police should have to obey the law, no one should be above the law, and on and on... any of these things could make it easily if dark money can be kept out of it, but that's another matter entirely.
*if anything, the 2016 election proved once and for all that the Electoral College does not work as intended. According to Hamilton, one of it's primary purposes is to prevent a populist demagogue from ever becoming President. That sure didn't work!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I guess you have not been exposed to Harry Potter

sorry I'm too old for that, it's impossible to completely avoid, but I can actively ignore.

or Stephen Colbert...

I remember Colbert when he was funny, before this current incarnation, which may be the real him.

The problem is not with the 10th amendment or most other amendments, some of them are the best part. Of course if it takes so many amendments to cobble the original document into something that can be lived with, it could well be best to toss the whole thing as their are several existing ones out there that are far superior to replace it with.
The problem is the way biased Supreme Courts have interpreted and ruled on it.
The Constitution does give lifetime appointments to Supreme Court Justices, (a big mistake), but what it does NOT do is give the Supreme Court the right to interpret the Constitution. The Supreme Court gave that to itself. And has done it in some incredibly horrible ways, which become precedent, and re-interpreted, and so on and so on, allowing things like people with enough $ being able to avoid justice.
The fact that the Constitution CAN be amended (just look at the ERA, it may take a long time and suffer the efforts of "those who should be burned in effigy on an annual basis" but it shows that ammendments CAN and WILL be done. And SHOULD be done. On a regular basis.
The whole "isn't it great we can amend the Constitution and isn't it too bad it can't be done" is just another smoke screen, the tyrannical minority spending money on propaganda to convince us it is futile to try and make anything fair or sensible. The fact is the majority of US citizens agree on sensible things, like people should have control of their own bodies, each person should get one vote*, we should not have to live in fear of maniacs with military grade weapons, the police should have to obey the law, no one should be above the law, and on and on... any of these things could make it easily if dark money can be kept out of it, but that's another matter entirely.
*if anything, the 2016 election proved once and for all that the Electoral College does not work as intended. According to Hamilton, one of it's primary purposes is to prevent a populist demagogue from ever becoming President. That sure didn't work!

amusing take...

JR

 

[Matador]

According to Hamilton, one of it's primary purposes is to prevent a populist demagogue from ever becoming President. That sure didn't work!

Hamilton's original deserves another re-mention:

The process of election affords a moral certainty, that the office of President will never fall to the lot of any man who is not in an eminent degree endowed with the requisite qualifications. Talents for low intrigue, and the little arts of popularity, may alone suffice to elevate a man to the first honors in a single State; but it will require other talents, and a different kind of merit, to establish him in the esteem and confidence of the whole Union, or of so considerable a portion of it as would be necessary to make him a successful candidate for the distinguished office of President of the United States.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Hamilton's original deserves another re-mention:

Hamilton also wanted the President (and Senators) to serve for life, so maybe your praise is misplaced or simply based in ignorance of history.

https://www.quora.com/Why-did-Alexa...he-President-should-serve-a-life-term?share=1

 

[nielsk]

I don't see how accurately quoting Hamilton is praising him (although not all his ideas were as bad as the Electoral College, or lifetime terms for that matter. After all he was the guy who was sure members of congress would be of sound mind and character!).

 

[iturnknobs]

The transition of power went forward.

Barely. Is this an acceptable occurrence every four years?

Ex President Trump is very upset with good reason, but some of his behavior is inexcusable, as usual.

Now I'm begging...please state why and with reputable sources. Don't "Sodderboy" me. That was a lot of reading with no results besides 60 lost court cases and more education on CyberNinjas that resulted in 360 MORE votes for Biden...and the millions of dollars spent by Trump in Wisconsin that led to more votes as well. NO COUNTY in the country had more than 100% of registered voters vote. Please enlighten us all if you've got the smoking gun hidden somewhere. Unlike many others, I will actually read and research the information provided.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Barely. Is this an acceptable occurrence every four years?

The outcome is acceptable, but the process was messier than it should be. As I have shared multiple times there is legislation proposed to avoid the uncertainty.

Now I'm begging...please state why and with reputable sources. Don't "Sodderboy" me. That was a lot of reading with no results besides 60 lost court cases and more education on CyberNinjas that resulted in 360 MORE votes for Biden...and the millions of dollars spent by Trump in Wisconsin that led to more votes as well. NO COUNTY in the country had more than 100% of registered voters vote. Please enlighten us all if you've got the smoking gun hidden somewhere. Unlike many others, I will actually read and research the information provided.

Why what exactly? I know that I am upset about the intelligence community and mass media presenting false narratives to discredit ex-President Trump and concealing damaging evidence of Biden family influence pedaling. Either of these could have flipped the election outcome. "Elite capture" is well known strategy used by China, to shower family members of influential people with millions of dollars to buy support. It sure looks like President Biden is compromised (perhaps in more ways than one). "Red Handed" by Peter Schweizer documents China's long game buying influence.

I blame ex-President Trump for losing the senate with his bloviating about election fraud in GA. He was/is understandably angry but hurt himself and others with his lack of self control.

JR

 

[sodderboy]

Nielsk,
I guess if we want to kill the United States of America and join the EU we will follow your suggestions.
Most states had it together and their counts in, including your state, on Election Night. But you got all these blue counties, states, election districts that somehow need two weeks to get everyone to vote, and two weeks or more to get a count.

"It's not who votes, but who counts the votes" Attribute it to whomever you want. It transcends one person saying it. I do not trust the people counting the votes in my NY election district when it takes them two weeks after Election Night to get a number. That is incompetence and the county does not want to do anything about it because they want it that way.

I agree that the registration card is irrelevant if no ID is required or given the fact that SS numbers are being given to illegals at the border prior to matriculation into a red district somewhere in the US.
I'm all for an Election Day holiday if we lose Election Month. Limited "absentee ballots" for those who can prove inaccessibility, mandatory voter ID, etc.
A huge part of the problem is that blue state legislatures and election districts threw away the federal laws controlling election rules. They made their own, and no legislator or state judge could give a hoot. That brought all of the drop box fraud and "no signature verification required" in so many already corrupt districts.
Now you are having 2022 primaries and so many are still screwed-up, many that were the corrupt counties in the 2020 election.
Zuckerburg chose to use dark money to infiltrate election districts at the core. That is an easier way to swing the vote than having zuckerbusses taking people to the polls.
No confidence in our elections.
Mike

 

[JohnRoberts]

Nielsk,
I guess if we want to kill the United States of America and join the EU we will follow your suggestions.
Most states had it together and their counts in, including your state, on Election Night. But you got all these blue counties, states, election districts that somehow need two weeks to get everyone to vote, and two weeks or more to get a count.

"It's not who votes, but who counts the votes" Attribute it to whomever you want. It transcends one person saying it. I do not trust the people counting the votes in my NY election district when it takes them two weeks after Election Night to get a number. That is incompetence and the county does not want to do anything about it because they want it that way.

attributed to Stalin, and others...

I agree that the registration card is irrelevant if no ID is required or given the fact that SS numbers are being given to illegals at the border prior to matriculation into a red district somewhere in the US.
I'm all for an Election Day holiday if we lose Election Month. Limited "absentee ballots" for those who can prove inaccessibility, mandatory voter ID, etc.
A huge part of the problem is that blue state legislatures and election districts threw away the federal laws controlling election rules. They made their own, and no legislator or state judge could give a hoot. That brought all of the drop box fraud and "no signature verification required" in so many already corrupt districts.
Now you are having 2022 primaries and so many are still screwed-up, many that were the corrupt counties in the 202 election.
Zuckerburg chose to use dark money to infiltrate election districts at the core. That is an easier way to swing the vote than having zuckerbusses taking people to the polls.
No confidence in our elections.
Mike

This is a bit of a side show but I have shared before that France outlawed mail in ballots years ago because of massive fraud. Our election system is pretty robust and can transfer power peacefully despite multiple reported instances of vote fraud every time for as long as I have paid attention. That said we must not make it any easier to cheat.

JR

PS; Some might try to reduce trust in vote integrity to discourage thoughtful informed voters.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I don't see how accurately quoting Hamilton is praising him (although not all his ideas were as bad as the Electoral College, or lifetime terms for that matter. After all he was the guy who was sure members of congress would be of sound mind and character!).

Well, another member stated "Hamilton's original deserves another re-mention:" and that was what I was referring to as praise and what I quoted in my response. I'd say it is POTUS' state of mind that should be of concern at the moment, though several members of congress are also on the off-ramp to mental incapacity (Pelosi, Nadler, Feinstein, Waters, possibly Grassley...).

 

[JohnRoberts]

If they are too old to pilot aircraft, maybe they are too old to pilot the nation (note: I am too old to pilot aircraft, i.e. >65YO).

JR

 

[Recording Engineer]

The transition of power went forward. Ex President Trump is very upset with good reason,

If I didn’t know better, I’d think you’re making the case for Hillary. It’s amazing the hill we stand on, when it fits our narrative. One might say it’s not apples to apples, but it sure looks that way when standing out of the box.

 

[Recording Engineer]

If they are too old to pilot aircraft, maybe they are too old to pilot the nation (note: I am too old to pilot aircraft, i.e. >65YO).

JR

It’s amazing that such concern of old-age and loosing marbles is so high (because apparently it’s so obvious), when I never once saw such concern with the former president’s mental illness (which was/is so obvious). Again, it seems apples to apples when standing out of the box.

 

[cyrano]

If they are too old to pilot aircraft, maybe they are too old to pilot the nation (note: I am too old to pilot aircraft, i.e. >65YO).

JR

In Germany, it's not so odd to surrender your driving license when you feel you're no longer capable of maneuvering modern traffic. It's fairly common even.

Over here, you get an odd look from grandpa just for suggesting it and quite often, the family has to ask the court to stop grandpa from driving...

 

[iturnknobs]

No confidence in our elections.

Time to storm the Capitol building. Support your privatized prison system. Maybe you can find a ride on a Zuckerbus from the right-wing echo chamber provided by Facebook. I think you're not worrying about the correct bus. You also neglect to accept the fact that all fraud allegations were negated primarily by Trump appointed judges. I guess he doesn't hire anything but "the best people".
https://www.marylandmatters.org/202...t-trump-rally-calls-vice-president-a-traitor/https://www.recordonline.com/story/...n-addressing-buses-dc-rally-goers/6577929002/Not only was this NOT dark money, but I'll jump on your bandwagon halfway and say the Citizens United needs to be ended....
https://www.votebeat.org/2022/4/25/...grants-arnold-schwarzenegger-election-funding