'Endorsements' ??

[thermionic]

Hi,

In your experience, working with small boutique OEMs, how are product endorsements handled? This is assuming the user in question has the kind of profile that benefits your product from his or her patronage.

The larger OEMs simply give equipment away. I often wonder if this cheapens the brand? If you haven't had to pay for something, why would you respect it? I know people who've been given items by large electronics giants, only to put them on Ebay...

If you're a small, independent OEM, you often can't afford to just give hardware away. What compromise is there?

Some clients are decent about it and let you mention them on your site etc, as long as you give them a good deal / trade price. It goes without saying that this kind of client gets the best aftercare you can offer. So far, I've felt it best to focus on this type of client. However, I've felt the pressure from some, implying they think I'll sell far more units and profit more than the cost of giving them free hardware.

What models have you witnessed? If someone 'high profile' asks for something for free, do you simply say no, and offer a compromise deal, as detailed above? Is it so important that some clients are seen operating the gear that they should never pay for anything?

Thanks in advance.

 

[pucho812]

I'm working with a fairly large OEM and we don't give away anything usually, we do discounts like you get a unit at cost in trade for press. things like that...

 

[thermionic]

I'm working with a fairly large OEM and we don't give away anything usually, we do discounts like you get a unit at cost in trade for press. things like that...

Thanks. That's exactly what I do. Do you have written agreements with the users?

Officially, the larger OEMs say they never give anything away. Why am I told by certain performers that they get given everything? Who's telling the truth? I'm inclined to believe the latter over the former.

 

[pucho812]

It does happen but the percentage is small, real small, and we usually decide who gets what, not the other way around. For example we loaned a  new compressor we just put out to a very prominent music engineer(name left out for various reasons) who in turn was kind enough to film a video  talking about his experience with the unit and how he uses it. We ended up letting him keep it for all of that as he went out of his way and tight schedule to film said video. But normally we would not... Most endorsement deals give the endorse a discounted price, that's how any good company works.  You'll go broke if you make a product and give it away all the time. That's bad business. But at least you can break even on the discount deals.

To get free from a company you really got to be in a position where people will try and do what you do with what you use.  Most people seeking endorsements are not in that position no matter how much they try and tell you they are.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am generally unenthusiastic about buying endorsements while apparently unwashed consumers are inclined to believe them.  Peavey had  a full time artist relations department, and even the owner of the company was inclined to gift product to win favor with people he wanted to impress. While every so often a real fan will happen to be an influential celebrity and real fans will support your product for free. I use several free unsolicited quotes on my website from real customers (none famous yet  ;D ).

The dirty underside of product placement is most people value things at roughly what they paid for them, so free sh__ is not worth much to them. I have dabbled in it myself over the years with more negative experiences than positive. Several of my products are lost in space with no accountable path to pursue.

I don't know what kind of product you are pushing, but I have also seen an interesting (but pretty rare) phenomenon sometimes with signature sonic effects where some studio guy doesn't want to reveal the secret sauce he uses to get his "sound", So he is a rabid fan but secretive.

It is probably a good investment to sell product at a deep discount as an "artist accommodation" in return for release to use his name in advertising. If he actually likes and wants the product, getting it for cost should be a good deal. If he only wants it if it is free, I wouldn't expect strong support.

Good luck...

JR

PS: For another sad story about product give-aways, back when I was trying to sell a $40k (IMO) big split console for $20k retail, a bunch less wholesale, with zero name brand recognition, I recall complaining to the company controller about never having one single magazine ad, despite selling a decent number of consoles. He then advised me about how many consoles had been given away by artist relations and even by the owner of the company.  ??? There was thousands of dollars worth of "our" cost in each one of these gifts, so I had an uphill battle to argue for an ad budget from all our profits. Of course later I ran into these same consoles after some well known artist, gave it away to one of his studio friends, for exactly what he paid for it. I believe one was traded to a rifle manufacturer, probably for a couple sweet shot-guns, again not doing me or my product profit margin any good.   

PPS: It used to be embarrassing how many wannabes would wander into the booth at trade shows expecting free product. The artist relations guys earned their keep at trade shows letting them down gently.

 

[okgb]

" The Total Bro " deal I got from  a mic manufacturer was cost +5 or something close
but there are different level's of cost , or who's cost ? If you thought no one is losing at that,
then what could be more fair

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I work with a few mid sized audio manufacturers (let's say each has a staff of 30 to 40).  We never give away anything outright but I do know for a fact that many companies do, especially the larger ones.

As you've already been doing taking care of every customer is the best way to get new customers.  I would never ask for a written agreement re reduced price for goodwill/mentions/tweets etc, I think it looks controlling.  In my case I want to leave every customer excited about their new gear and I won't stop until they are super happy.  When they are super happy they tell their successful friends and their fans.

Edit - forgot to add - the easy answer to guys looking for free stuff is that you just can't afford to give away gear, you are too small, margins are tight, cost of manufacturing is high etc.  But you will work with them within your means and give them superstar service (the same superstar service you give every customer

 

[thermionic]

Thanks. It looks like the path I've been pursuing so far is in keeping with the experience of most here. I think the bottom line here is to focus on real fans, famous or not. If someone's upfront about wanting free gear from the word go, there's probably something suspect going on...i.e. they've got rooms full of it, most of which is never used...or worse... 

Interestingly, you can spot the seriously influential people often by the fact that they insist on paying list price and will not entertain any kind of discount... I suspect this is because they're aware that their name will help sell products, and they want more than a lousy piece of rack gear if you want to use their name!

 

[Gold]

I suspect this is because they're aware that their name will help sell products, and they want more than a lousy piece of rack gear if you want to use their name!

I think the general rule of thumb is the only ones who get free stuff are the ones who don't need or want it. Poor folks never get a break.

Personally I was flattered when Maselec wanted to use a picture and quote at their AES booth a couple of years ago. I didn't ask for anything and nothing was offered. I can't think of another brand I would attach my name to, incentive or not... I'm a big fan and have been using that stuff for 20 years. Not that I'm even close to their big time users.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Your name is good as Gold...

JR

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Not that I'm even close to their big time users.

We're super proud to have you as a user Paul!

 

[thermionic]

Here's the reason why

 

[JohnRoberts]

Here's the reason why

An old chart... While the luster of gold remains undiminished, the price did not keep rising forever... as my modest investment in GLD reminds me every time I review my holdings.  :'( Gold is my single worst investment (currently in my portfolio), but at only 1% of my portfolio and at that a worst case scenario currency hedge against currencies collapsing, so I hope it keeps going down because that means the other 99% (in dollars) will keep going up.  In fact 1% is a little thin, I should buy more, but the near future expectation is that US interest rates will increase, making the dollar stronger, so gold should fall even more relative to the dollar.

JR

PS I'd rather be named Gold than Bitcoin...  8)

 

[Orpheus]

My own observation and experience at the "small league" level is with endorsements for drums, amps etc... most of the time they don't give you much (if anything) for "free", and if you add up the work involved to get the endorsement the cost:benefit ratio is negligible. The major advantage is the tour support, especially internationally or intercontinentally. If we're crossing the pond for a 6 show tour or whatever, having a back line and drum kit waiting for us might be the difference between doing the tour and not.

I personally have little interest in soliciting endorsements since our amps are all built by myself, we're not likely to do any overseas shows that we couldn't cope with by simply borrowing the backline.

When it comes to studio equipment I haven't the slightest clue as to how the companies would structure it. The market is substantially smaller (far less engineers than musicians) and the 'big names' are far less visible from a marketing perspective.