Fader Quality

[Humner]

How important is fader quality when it comes to 100mm throw faders?

These appear to be a nice affordable option

http://au.element14.com/bourns/ptb0144-2010bpa103/potentiometer-slide-10k-100mm/dp/1688412

Next up are ALPS K.faders from AML -

http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/faders_carbon.html

And then finally we have P&G in the $60 range.

I could never justify P&G so its between the ALPS K.fader and Bourns. The Bourns is still substantially cheaper and when dealing with 24+ channels is an attractive option.

What will I loose with those Bourns faders?

 

[shabtek]

You get what you pay for here .

The alps have good  feel and are an ok compromise, i dont think they can be maintained and wont be as quiet as the p&g.
For main fader and maybe most used channel/groups i would go with pg once and be done.

 

[ruffrecords]

I tried the ALPS because I could not believe how much cheaper they are than a P&G. The motion is extremely smooth and light - feels to me very much like a P&G. For home use I would say the ALPS are fine but use P&G for busy studio use.

Cheers

Ian

 

[zamproject]

Hi

Don't forget TKD
They offer CP track cheaper than P&G
I'm more then happy with the MF914 (motorfader)
They have CPA7000 / 9000 (without motor) which look to have the same CP print board loaded
Sliding noise at audio side is impressive compared to ALPS carbon

It's difficult to say about feeling, as the one I use have belt and motor, but the mechanical sliding is enough smooth to feel the motor steps trough the belt and T bar, so there is a chance that without this unavoidable mechanical counterforce (for a motor fader) the "feeling" is great.
I just order CPA7000 for evaluation, I can tell more in few weeks

Best
Zam

 

[nielsk]

Longevity is the biggest difference

 

[mjrippe]

Longevity is the biggest difference

And serviceability.  P&G conductive plastic can be cleaned with distilled water and return to like new condition.

 

[ruffrecords]

Anyone know of a UK source for the CPA7000?

Cheers

Ian

 

[zamproject]

Anyone know of a UK source for the CPA7000?

Cheers

Ian

Hello Ian

To my knowledge there is only one TKD distributor in europe
http://www.fk-industrie.de/en/produktkatalog/P/S/L/109.html

best
Zam

 

[JohnRoberts]

How important is fader quality when it comes to 100mm throw faders?

I used to design consoles, and customers often judge the book by the cover.  Just like car buyers would kick the tires, console buyers will first feel the faders, and if the faders feel lousy, they stop looking any further.

I've heard customer complaints about faders being too easy to move and too hard, so opinions vary about that.

These appear to be a nice affordable option

http://au.element14.com/bourns/ptb0144-2010bpa103/potentiometer-slide-10k-100mm/dp/1688412

Next up are ALPS K.faders from AML -

http://www.audiomaintenance.com/acatalog/faders_carbon.html

And then finally we have P&G in the $60 range.

I could never justify P&G so its between the ALPS K.fader and Bourns. The Bourns is still substantially cheaper and when dealing with 24+ channels is an attractive option.

What will I loose with those Bourns faders?

P&G are premium faders. The Alps "K" fader was their response to the Korean Jung Poon that was cheap and attracted customers in the '80s. The K fader from Alps was a decent performer and way cheaper than Alp's former premium fader. I used the K in my big consoles 20+ years ago, and customers did not complain.

Of course customers didn't complain when I used P&Gs back in the 70's (Loft). The P&G were $50 back then so $60 now means they got more affordable.

The faders won't make the sound better, but it can make you feel like it sounds better.  8)

JR

 

[audiomixer]

comparing the Alps K- Range and the TDK carbon 104mm (I have both types here), the TKD series wins easily. The TKD is much smoother in travel and has a better overall feel. Now I cannot tell anything about longevity, and serviceability is probably limited compared to the P&Gs.

FK Industrie were very helpfull and I had no problem getting them to Switzerland... surely they are going to ship to GB, as long as you stay in the EU at least  ;D

- Michael

 

[analogguru]

Those faders from the MTR-consoles are reasonable:

From our days as a mixer manufacturer, we have a quantity of very good quality mono 100mm faders (sliders) for sale.  These are copies of the Alps fader design, with the control finger running on a lubricated rail or spindle.
The price is £2.00 plus VAT (no VAT outside the EU or with a valid VAT number), plus postage/carriage.
They are packed in fitted plastic trays of 16 pieces, with 3 trays per box, so please order in multiples of 16 (or boxes of 48).

The nominal value is 'A10K' Logarithmic. The fixing centres are 120mm apart, fixing screws and knobs are not supplied.

Among many other mixers, these are a direct replacement for the Peavey AMR (Audio Media Research) range including 800, the 1600, and the 2400 models, and should work in the Peavey Mark VIII line.  Also Allen & Heath GL2000 and, with minor modifications, the Hill Multimix.
www.mtraudio.com

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22578.msg696634#msg696634

 

[ricardo]

comparing the Alps K- Range and the TDK carbon 104mm (I have both types here), the TKD series wins easily. The TKD is much smoother in travel and has a better overall feel. Now I cannot tell anything about longevity, and serviceability is probably limited compared to the P&Gs.

I would be wary of using carbon faders ... even in a 'prosumer' application.

Of course if you are not selling them and won't have customers to keep happy ..  8)

 

[ruffrecords]

Those faders from the MTR-consoles are reasonable:

From our days as a mixer manufacturer, we have a quantity of very good quality mono 100mm faders (sliders) for sale.  These are copies of the Alps fader design, with the control finger running on a lubricated rail or spindle.
The price is £2.00 plus VAT (no VAT outside the EU or with a valid VAT number), plus postage/carriage.
They are packed in fitted plastic trays of 16 pieces, with 3 trays per box, so please order in multiples of 16 (or boxes of 48).

The nominal value is 'A10K' Logarithmic. The fixing centres are 120mm apart, fixing screws and knobs are not supplied.

Among many other mixers, these are a direct replacement for the Peavey AMR (Audio Media Research) range including 800, the 1600, and the 2400 models, and should work in the Peavey Mark VIII line.  Also Allen & Heath GL2000 and, with minor modifications, the Hill Multimix.
www.mtraudio.com

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22578.msg696634#msg696634

@Humner:

I bought a bunch of these. They are OK but not as good as the ALPS. I am happy to post you a couple to try out FOC.

Cheers

Ian

 

[JohnRoberts]

I've used about a bazillion carbon potentiometers while at Peavey, ranging from better (Alps), and worse no name $0.07 small mixer pots. I'm sure they had a name too but I didn't bother to learn or remember it. 

Properly engineered and applied they're all good, and far from the weakest link in 99% of audio path applications.

JR

[edit] while pots and switches will have a "feel" so that will influence product perception, and as moving parts they will exhibit wear and tear. [/edit]

 

[Humner]

Those faders from the MTR-consoles are reasonable:

From our days as a mixer manufacturer, we have a quantity of very good quality mono 100mm faders (sliders) for sale.  These are copies of the Alps fader design, with the control finger running on a lubricated rail or spindle.
The price is £2.00 plus VAT (no VAT outside the EU or with a valid VAT number), plus postage/carriage.
They are packed in fitted plastic trays of 16 pieces, with 3 trays per box, so please order in multiples of 16 (or boxes of 48).

The nominal value is 'A10K' Logarithmic. The fixing centres are 120mm apart, fixing screws and knobs are not supplied.

Among many other mixers, these are a direct replacement for the Peavey AMR (Audio Media Research) range including 800, the 1600, and the 2400 models, and should work in the Peavey Mark VIII line.  Also Allen & Heath GL2000 and, with minor modifications, the Hill Multimix.
www.mtraudio.com

http://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=22578.msg696634#msg696634

@Humner:

I bought a bunch of these. They are OK but not as good as the ALPS. I am happy to post you a couple to try out FOC.

Cheers

Ian

Hi Ian,

Thanks for the offer - I will send you a PM further regarding this, I think that will be very helpful!

Rob

 

[David Kulka]

One easy gauge of a fader's smoothness and general mechanical quality is how slowly you can move it. Try it sometime - see how slowly you can move a fader. At a certain point, "sticktion" interferes and movement becomes jerky. A P&G in good condition will pass this test nicely, and will perform well when when a very slow fade is desired.