Fake Behringer B-5?

[k brown]

Any indication these listed on eBay could be fakes/knock-offs?

I bought one, and the body and circuit board are quite different from a much older one. The capsules look pretty much the same.

I imagine they've changed since they first came out, but does anything look suspicious in this listing?

https://www.ebay.com/itm/266171598606

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I'd contact Behringer, I've never owned a B5, but the current B2 Pros are incredibly different from the old ones, so it might be the same for the B5. The old B2 Pro used a different capsule (797's C800 style capsule before, now it's the K67) and very different PCB.

 

[C12VR]

There is a surprising amount of fake pro audio gear that goes completely unpunished on ebay, but why fake a B5?

 

[k brown]

Looks like my post was premature; another B-5 I ordered from Sweetwater arrived today, and is identical in every way to the one I was suspicious of.

Pretty sure Sweetwater doesn't dable counterfeit merch.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

Looks like my post was premature; another B-5 I ordered from Sweetwater arrived today, and is identical in every way to the one I was suspicious of.

Pretty sure Sweetwater doesn't dable counterfeit merch.

Could you take pictures of the internals? Could be useful in the future.

There is a surprising amount of fake pro audio gear that goes completely unpunished on ebay, but why fake a B5?

While unlikely, you'd be surprised at the amount of low end mics that are counterfeited now. The dirt cheap AT875R shotgun mic has counterfeits now, it's not just Shures, Sennheisers, and Neumanns getting counterfeited anymore. Fake Lewitts are around, not exactly the most low end, but definitely within reasonable reach, and there's no way a sub $150 Lewitt on Ali is legit.

 

[Khron]

Fake Lewitts are around, not exactly the most low end, but definitely within reasonable reach, and there's no way a sub $150 Lewitt on Ali is legit.

I've seen some of those Lewitt look-alikes on Ali, but they were not branded as such, so i wouldn't call them necessarily "counterfeit"; "fake" is debatable.

Cheapest Lewitt (at least when searching for "Lewitt") on Ali that i can see right now is LCT040 for 229eu, for what it's worth.

 

[Icantthinkofaname]

I've seen some of those Lewitt look-alikes on Ali, but they were not branded as such, so i wouldn't call them necessarily "counterfeit"; "fake" is debatable.

I'm talking about this listing which I saw as a featured/advertised listing. The same seller also lists something called "Lewitt LCT 249 Pro" with the bodies and logos saying the same thing so it's not a typo. I can find no reference to such a model anywhere but Ali and some other similar marketplaces.



Here's the "LCT 249 Pro".



These are listed by a store called A Cloud Global Store, and to my knowledge are the only sketchy Lewitts on there. But if they actually sell you what's pictured Lewitts are definitely being counterfeited.

 

[Khron]

Nevermind then, i stand corrected That, or just some location-based result pre-filtering...

 

[rock soderstrom]

I'm talking about this listing which I saw as a featured/advertised listing. The same seller also lists something called "Lewitt LCT 249 Pro" with the bodies and logos saying the same thing so it's not a typo. I can find no reference to such a model anywhere but Ali and some other similar marketplaces.

View attachment 107818

Here's the "LCT 249 Pro".

View attachment 107819

These are listed by a store called A Cloud Global Store, and to my knowledge are the only sketchy Lewitts on there. But if they actually sell you what's pictured Lewitts are definitely being counterfeited.

This is the consequence of manufacturing in China. You do all the design work and pre-production and then you get your goods first and with a certain time delay the identical pirate product on the market!

I would be afraid that my Chinese "partner" would rip me off. This seems to happen relatively often.

 

[k brown]

Could you take pictures of the internals? Could be useful in the future.

While unlikely, you'd be surprised at the amount of low end mics that are counterfeited now. The dirt cheap AT875R shotgun mic has counterfeits now, it's not just Shures, Sennheisers, and Neumanns getting counterfeited anymore. Fake Lewitts are around, not exactly the most low end, but definitely within reasonable reach, and there's no way a sub $150 Lewitt on Ali is legit.

Pic of old one shows my replacement of the cheap, non-C0G coupling cap with a polystyrene. The new one has what looks like a COG, so I left alone. Both have the same odd, flat 1G resistors.

Old one looks to have film caps between FET and output Qs; I guess the new ones are chip tantalum.

The two through hole resistors at right center of both boards are, I assume the 'select on test' bias resistors for the FET? Not apparent in photos, but they stand up a ways from the boards. There's a blob of what appears to be wax under them on the old board; the new one, there's nothing.

Clearly no DC-DC converter in there, so don't know what polarization voltage the capsules get.

Note the change in the Behringer 'ear' logo, and the change from a chromed metal dome under the capsule, to a plastic one; both are more a truncated cone than a dome.

 

[Khron]

A few observations:

- no tantalums to be seen (they're expensive!); all ceramics there - one can't hope for better than X5R for the nF-range and up

- yes, there IS a DC-DC converter - see those two green axial inductors (not select-on-test resistors)? The little TO92/SOT23-packaged component connected to them is likely an NPN transistor, and the schematic is likely very Schoeps-ish

You could measure the capsule bias voltage at the output end of D1 in the SMD version, and the corresponding point in the older one.

 

[k brown]

A few observations:

- no tantalums to be seen (they're expensive!); all ceramics there - one can't hope for better than X5R for the nF-range and up

- yes, there IS a DC-DC converter - see those two green axial inductors (not select-on-test resistors)? The little TO92/SOT23-packaged component connected to them is likely an NPN transistor, and the schematic is likely very Schoeps-ish

You could measure the capsule bias voltage at the output end of D1 in the SMD version, and the corresponding point in the older one.

Interesting - how is that being done on the old board?; the only Qs are the two for the output (the only component on the back is one of the 1G resistors).

 

[Khron]

Could there be an SMD transistor obscured by the hot-snot holding the inductors together? Unless they went with an impedance-balanced output (single transistor, somehow) on the old one...

Can't be a coincidence that the couple of black-tipped ceramics (indicative of NPO / C0G) and couple of vertical diodes are "still" present near that pair of inductors...

 

[k brown]

Could there be an SMD transistor obscured by the hot-snot holding the inductors together? Unless they went with an impedance-balanced output (single transistor, somehow) on the old one...

Can't be a coincidence that the couple of black-tipped ceramics (indicative of NPO / C0G) and couple of vertical diodes are "still" present near that pair of inductors...

It is weird - but no, there's not a single SMD part on the old board. I dug out the wax (seemed identical to 'wax for braces' dental wax), and all that's under there is the silkscreened rectangles marked L1 and L2 - same as the new board.

Impedance-balanced out is a possibility I guess - I haven't traced out the circuit.

 

[Khron]

If the transistor next to C16 is an NPN, there's your answer.

 

[tinn]

Schematic Behringer B-5:
Old reverse engineering of my Behringer B-5.
Coupling cap at the gate seems fine, C11 (1µF ceramic) is somewhat microphonic.

 

[k brown]

Schematic Behringer B-5:
Old reverse engineering of my Behringer B-5.
Coupling cap at the gate seems fine, C11 (1µF ceramic) is somewhat microphonic.

Very cool - thanks for that.

Is this the through-hole version, or SMD version?

 

[Khron]

Why would you assume there's a circuit difference? Why wouldn't the circuit be the same, just with different packages? Still 3 transistors that i can see...

 

[tinn]

The schematic above from 2012 was of the SMD Version

 

[Khron]

The SMD version reminds me a lot of the insides of my t.Bone SC140's, which are supposed to be some knockoffs of Rode NT55's (same as this, including the negative capsule bias voltage, but with added 3-position pad). This would be an NT5 "remake" then? No idea what the "original" circuit might look like though...