FET compressor

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Gus

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PRR in this thread you have a picture of a circuit fragment

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=11910&start=30


What does the sim use for the specs of the 3819?

The reason I ask is I might make some time to go thur more of the 1000 2n3819s I bought and I could pick out some pairs.
 
> What does the sim use for the specs of the 3819?

Some arbitrary numbers that no real 2N3819 has.

FETs are like lumber.

Or like: you are building a wooden box. You don't have a saw. You do have access to a thousand very cheap boards in semi-random lengths. You may not care exactly how big the box comes out, but you need Left and Right sides the same or everything gets out of kilter.

So you pick two random-length board of a usable length and the same length, and you have your sides. OK, they should be the same width too. If the lumber is truly random, you may have to sort a lot of boards to find two the same length and width, near-enough.

Same with FETs. A type-number is a semi-sort, like buying random boards in 2'-4', 3'-6', 4'-8' sortings.

To get two FETs that will balance in a push-pull, you need to sort for both Idss and Vth. You won't find an exact match in a barrel, just get a few close pairs.

Then pick Drain resistors so that at zero bias, the Drains sit at 1/3rd to 1/2 the supply voltage. Vth is the negative bias you need to turn the FETs "off". Neither number is critical; you can fudge to suit the FETs that you have.
 
Excuse to barge in with a very non-technical question, but how would the sound be different compared to the tube vari-mu version, if it was done with FETs instead?

How different would the general compression characteristics be? Would it allow for better gain reduction, or less/more transparent sound?

IIRC the PRR vari-mu was designed to work with reasonably small reductions (less than 15-20db).
 
[quote author="PRR"] ... FETs are like lumber.
...
So you pick two random-length board of a usable length and the same length, and you have your sides. ......[/quote]
not quite as weird as the Farm analogy but good stuff non the less

:cool:
 
kingston - how would it sound? that's a good question! i don't think anyone could say untill someone builds one and reports back...

who knows... it could magically posess the powers of both an 1176 and a 660 - perhaps you could call it a 117660??

point being it's pretty hard to tell from simultations and stipulations how a compressor will "sound"...

perhaps someone has already made something like this? pray tell if you have
 
Right, I was under the impression that someone had built one already. And if not, maybe an experienced person might have been able to extrapolate a guess on the sound based on the schematic.
 
Hmm ... any reasons not to use mosfets - maybe pushed a little harder? I mean with larger quiescent current. A pair of to-220 mosfets on heatsinks and 10W resistors would look kinda sexy, wouldn't it ...

And a wild one: would this work if there was a mu-follower at either drain, instead of a plain resistor (may be harder to match)?

...so there would be 4 mosfets on heatsinks and 5W resistors ...
 
PRR

one of the reasons I asked was the 3918 typical IDSS would not work with the 500 ohm resistors in the drain lead for 12VDC at the drain you would need 24ma 16VDC at the drain 16ma. I guess you would want a 2nxxxx higher last digit or C suffix NS process 50 fet like a 3819

I was wondering what the logic of the use of the 3819 was? if it was just because it has a sim model, that makes sense.

Fets are all over the place in IDSS 2n3819s are 2 to 20 I don't think I measured higher than 15ma (most lower)in the ones I tested so far from the bag of 1000

If I build it I will do the work. I was just asking what your thoughts were for a starting point in picking the fets.
 
> what the logic of the use of the 3819 was? if it was just because it has a sim model

Right, my sim has about one JFET in it.

> reasons not to use mosfets

I don't know. The same basic equation covers both. But commodity MOSFETs tend to be big. If you want a big limiter, OK. Dynamic range scales somewhat like square-root of power dissipation. And the tend to be Enhancement mode, which means a limiter would idle at a positive gate voltage; it is super simple and convenient to idle near zero bias and throw the gates down for GR.

> would this work if there was a mu-follower

Obviously not. What is the gain of a resistor loaded amp? Rl*Gm. As you change bias, Gm varies, Rl does not vary, gain does change. What is the gain of a Mu-follower? Mu/2. Period. Mu hardly changes with bias, or not until you are so near cut-off that your maximum signal is about zero. Anyway the Mu of a MOSFET is very-very high. For good S/N at the input, we want fairly large input signals; but if gain is high then output is HUGE. Don't think "good amplifier". A good gain cell may be a really bad amplifier. It is a different problem.

ANYWAY: what is all this complication? Start simple, get it working, then elaborate.

> the 3918 typical IDSS would not work with the 500 ohm resistors

There is nothing magic about 500 ohms. It happened to give an operating point at 1/2 of the supply voltage for the particular fake-FET that my sim models.

> I don't think I measured higher than 15ma

You got a lot of 5mA or 10mA parts? So use 1K or 2K drain resistors. That's what I was expecting for real JFETs, but the sim model wanted 500 ohms. As you say, real FETs vary by 10:1. In simple amps we can use self-bias and un-fussy circuits so that all FETs in a bag will amplify. In this case we do need matched pairs, matched for Idss and Vth.

The drain resistor is moderately critical because it is the source impedance for the next stage. If it goes to a transformer, high value resistors complicate transformer design, low values can drive most anything.

How fussy is the match? Build it and see. It will work, but for fast audio limiting it will thump. You can still do a lot of testing to see if the range of gain control and level is usable. If it is, then you can obsess the match and thump problems. If it sucks bad, not just for thump, then you can give up and not deal with matching.

> what your thoughts were for a starting point in picking the fets.

Pick two medium-size JFETs with similar Idss and Vth. Pick supply and load values to set the drains about halfway up the rail at zero bias. That's the easy part. Finding suitable input levels and sidechain will be the heavy work.
 
ANYWAY: what is all this complication? Start simple, get it working, then elaborate.
I was thinking of incorporating compression right into instrument input stage and thought of using a lowpower mosfet.
 
I was hoping there would be more to this thread than me and PRR.

Mosfets have a issue with the charge of the gate . Look at some mot data books on driving the gate of a mosfet.

I knew more than I posted. I was hoping others(not PRR or Brad or NYD etc.) might add something like the use of a 1K or 2k resistor.

I am posting this here because of a thread in the Brewery.
 

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