Four KM-84 Clones - Blind Test

[MicUlli]

Then aren’t you just trading one set of anomalies for another? The amount of proximity effect depends on the capsule construction, i.e., dual diaphragm has reduced proximity effect. It also depends on the incidence direction, e.g. there’s no proximity effect at 90°. I thought quasi-anechoic measurements work by windowing the impulse response before the first reflection?

You have got it, thanks to nature that it obeys the rules of windowed FFT.
The claim that cardioids measure better when using a cardioid ref mic is bullshit, because it holds only true when the polar patterns are identical...

 

[museric]

You might want to borrow (if you can) or just buy an inexpensive calibrated measurement mic, so that you can do reasonable frequency response measurements and not just relative ones.

Does that studio have one you can use, I wonder? If not, the Dayton Audio EMM-6 is only $55 right now w/free shipping at Amazon.

I can vouch for the EMM-6 for - I’d buy it again - very useful. Gonna get it out here soon to make sure my room is ready for the next mix project.

 

[joulupukki]

I love that you guys know so much about this stuff! Hopefully you don’t laugh too hard when I post info/graphs about what I’m seeing with these mics.

So … for simpletons like myself, if I wanted to evaluate these DIY mics myself “at home” I would need to find a reference mic that’s cardioid, correct? I don’t know if I’ll go that route since, in the end, if I can get a great-sounding recording out of them, that’s really what I’m mostly after. But, it’s good to be able to visually see what the differences are between the two microphones.

 

[kingkorg]

I love that you guys know so much about this stuff! Hopefully you don’t laugh too hard when I post info/graphs about what I’m seeing with these mics.

So … for simpletons like myself, if I wanted to evaluate these DIY mics myself “at home” I would need to find a reference mic that’s cardioid, correct? I don’t know if I’ll go that route since, in the end, if I can get a great-sounding recording out of them, that’s really what I’m mostly after. But, it’s good to be able to visually see what the differences are between the two microphones.

You are not doing anything wrong, you are interested in comparative measurements between the mics you built. This is legit way to do it. You are better off doing that, than adding another reference mic to add to the confusion.

Make measurements with REW of km184 and one of your mic at same exact spot, each at a time, say 20cm away from the speaker. Forget about 1 meter distance, just believe me, i don't have life time of arguing to spend with mathematicians here that black and white are two different colours. Than use trace arithmetic tab in REW and do the calculation where you divide the measurement of your mic by KM184. So mic A is your mic, mic B is KM184. Resulting curve is how different your build is to KM184. Combine mics at will.... Use 1/6 smoothing if you like to look at ''pretty'' graphs, but i'd rather see anything you measure unsmoothed than anything else. I'll delete my previous posts in this thread, as it seems everyone who wanted to listen has read them.

 

[kingkorg]

Worth keeping in mind that measurement mics are mostly omnidirectional, so using that as a reference can be so-and-so, for cardioids.

I just changed my mind, I think using omnis as a reference for cardioids is the best idea since the invention of the wheel. So OMNIS all the way!!!

 

[Paul W]

Are there reasonably priced calibrated cardioid mics?

Cross-Spectrum Labs will calibrate mics you send in, but I haven't inquired as to how much they charge.

 

[kingkorg]

Are there reasonably priced calibrated cardioid mics?

Cross-Spectrum Labs will calibrate mics you send in, but I haven't inquired as to how much they charge.

Line audio CM4. Every house should have one, even if you'll never use it. Even if you are a 80 yo. grandma, it can certainly be a nice decoration. Everyone here on this forum please if you ever appreciated a word of what i said, go online now and buy CM4!

 

[Paul W]

Are you suggesting just using a CM4 as a flat mic, or sending it to Cross-Spectrum to be calibrated, or what?

I've got a pair of Shure SM81s (which are supposed to be pretty flat) and a Blue Hummingbird... and a pair of AT MB4k's, and a pair of Takstar CM63's.

If I am to buy a CM4 (I do hear great things about them) does anybody know the best way to get them in the US? (They have no US distributor, and say to contact some other distributor, who will ship to US, but don't say which one. If anyone has had a good experience with their Canadian or Australian distributor shipping to the US, or something like that, I'm all ears.) I'd probably have bought one already if it were obvious how to just pull the trigger.

 

[joulupukki]

Are you suggesting just using a CM4 as a flat mic, or sending it to Cross-Spectrum to be calibrated, or what?

I've got a pair of Shure SM81s (which are supposed to be pretty flat) and a Blue Hummingbird... and a pair of AT MB4k's, and a pair of Takstar CM63's.

If I am to buy a CM4 (I do hear great things about them) does anybody know the best way to get them in the US? (They have no US distributor, and say to contact some other distributor, who will ship to US, but don't say which one. If anyone has had a good experience with their US or Australian distributor shipping to the US, or something like that, I'm all ears.) I'd probably have bought one already if it were obvious how to just pull the trigger.

I was in the same boat. They look like a compelling mic but I kinda gave up when it wasn't obvious which retailer to use. I just sent an email to their reseller in Canada. I'll let you know if I hear back from them.

Same question though @kingkorg. Are you suggesting these are good to use as-is as a reference mic (for cardioid pencil mics like these KM84 clones)?

 

[kingkorg]

Are you suggesting just using a CM4 as a flat mic, or sending it to Cross-Spectrum to be calibrated, or what?

I've got a pair of Shure SM81s (which are supposed to be pretty flat) and a Blue Hummingbird... and a pair of AT MB4k's, and a pair of Takstar CM63's.

If I am to buy a CM4 (I do hear great things about them) does anybody know the best way to get them in the US? (They have no US distributor, and say to contact some other distributor, who will ship to US, but don't say which one. If anyone has had a good experience with their Canadian or Australian distributor shipping to the US, or something like that, I'm all ears.) I'd probably have bought one already if it were obvious how to just pull the trigger.

Just buy it directly from Roger at Line Audio. Drop him a mail. He makes them, and calibrates each unit. The only unclear thing is why he sells them so cheap. This is closest thing to buying a microphone directly from Georg Neumann. And i am not exaggerating having in mind Rogers reputation.

 

[joulupukki]

The only thing that concerns me is that his website says this in a bunch of places:

All sales are handled by our SELECTED DEALERS. We no longer sell directly.

But maybe he has a special way for hobbyists like us?

 

[joulupukki]

Looks like one could order via reverb.com from one of their authorized dealers.

 

[kags]

I recently spoke to their Canadian distributor who is happy to ship to the US for about a $40 fee, if I remember. I found the contact in the Line website.

 

[k brown]

I recently spoke to their Canadian distributor who is happy to ship to the US for about a $40 fee, if I remember. I found the contact in the Line website.

https://knick31.wixsite.com/nicholashayesaudio
https://knick31.wixsite.com/nicholashayesaudio/contact

[email protected]

 

[berret]

I also use the cm3, the previous variant, quite a lot, among km 84, km 83, microtech.gefell m221, om1 and others.
They are great!

 

[MicUlli]

Line audio CM4. Every house should have one, even if you'll never use it. Even if you are a 80 yo. grandma, it can certainly be a nice decoration. Everyone here on this forum please if you ever appreciated a word of what i said, go online now and buy CM4!

I agree. Well invested 150 €. You can play with the measurement distance. At approx. 35..55cm you will get a dead flat bass response This holds true for nearly every cardioid...