German Tube Consolette (Girls Build)

[matriachamplification]

Hello friends,

Special mention from my family (Wilma) to @vintagelove for helping to get us motivated on a V72 build. This may seem confusing to anyone not in the know about Miahak, Telefunken, TAB and Siemans. They seem to have all been manufacturing similar console designs based around the V72 mic preamp.

We were first schooled about the V72 from David @Winston OBoogie and have been looking for a way to really learn as much as possible about this design. This lead us back to Miahak and his legacy (which we can discuss as I learn more about the man).

This has been further possible with lots of support from The Middleman who has almost single handedly outfitted our entire educational programs labs. Dare to dream. My dream console was a Miahak Tube Console (prior to learning of Mr. Thompson-Bell' designs). We thought we found a V45 for $2000! But was a bunk site. Here.




Maihak V45
The V72 History - Tab-Funkenwerk
This is everything I've learned about Miahak V45 online

Below is a list of parts we are starting with.

1 x Telefunken V72 Racked ( @vintagelove )
16 x Eckmiller W68 Tube Faders
3 x TAB U70A Light Beams
3 x TAB U70A Meter Amps

What is a Tube Fader or Tube Buffered Fader?
This is the second time we have come across this term and have no idea what it means.


Eckmiller W68 Faders

Carbon track fader for broadcast mixing consoles. Balanced construction.

• Input 600 ohms
• output 200 ohms

Same as Maihak W66c, but with recessed control knob.



TAB U70A Light Beams



TAB U70A Meter Amps

We may be looking for someone fluent in German to help us translate some of the documentation we are collecting. More on that soon.

For now, we are going to work on a custom designed enclosure. This will be a HEAVY look into these designs and how they are layed out.

We wanted to further comment on @vintagelove and his genorosity helping to get this project rolling. He practically gave us the V72 all before our post about a V72 console. Expect more details tomorrow now that this is online.

Lastly this about fills our quota for Historical Locations with Maihak opening up a whole new world of designs and designers from the surrounding areas of origin.

Definately more on this soon!

Wall and Family

 

[matriachamplification]

The TAB U70A Meter Amp & Meter

"Tab Telefunken U70 Logarithmic modulation meters / Amplifiers, and a pair of Siemens J45b Light meters, original and complete modules in very good cosmetic condition . These modules, are a two slot " Danner " width, These enable control / adjustment of Maihak, Tab, Telefunken, Siemens Vu Meters with directed light beam and optical system . The electronic design uses four tubes each, as well as high quality transformer"

Useful notes from worthpoint.

 

[matriachamplification]

Hello friends,

After a long nap I awoke to find this image.


If we needed a candadite for rebuild, this design would be almost perfect. While I am sure there is an easy answer I would like help pinpointing which Modules would be neccessary to build a Tube Console.

Any suggestions regarding Telefunken Tube Console Modules is neccessary at this time. We know there are MANY discrete options. We only want tube.

Researing on.

Wall

 

[matriachamplification]

Hello friends.

Lets build the Telefunken'Stein Tube Console.

Wilma has reached out to Telefunken directly to get enquire about their Mic Kits as a companion project to this build. Hopefully they will have some insight to motivate us on our console.

Fortunately, long time educator and good friend Uwe Beis of Beis Electronics is German and we are certain he will aid with our translation concerns (as well as being our goto for all things relating to Analog to Digital and Digital to Analog Recording).

TUBE MODULES

Compression
Passive EQ
Mon Amps
Line Amps

With a team now behind us we will lastly connect with Frank regarding a faithful recreation of the consoles faceplate. And, this will be the Model of our first 6ch Consolette building on Mr. Thompson-Bell' designs.

Any help is appreciated.

Wall and Family

 

[matriachamplification]

I have located the particulars regarding the U73 Tube Compressor direct.

https://www.tab-funkenwerk.org/history-of-tfk/the-u73-history/
Now we need to track down a pair of these, probably really expensive, tube compressors along with V72 mic pre's.

I may be sellng my Rivera TBR 1-M with original Tubes to make up these costs. My pride and joy.

 

[matriachamplification]

It didn't take no time but we were able to located a German Ebay'ish store that has everything we need to build our console. I am still attempting to crack the code on signing up for their service. It requires a telephone number but has no Canadian option. Totally fixable but a inconvience.

Here is our first hopeful addition to a museum. Telefunken V-504

Now that we have some info on Telefunken Tube Modules built around the V72 series I can much more effectively plan out our build. We are now locating schematics and documentation from our new tube doc guy in Quebec.

MAIHAK CUSTOM TUBE CONSOLETTE

Maihak V73 Tube Amplifer
Maihak V74 Tube Amplifier

While awaiting response from the German service we have located these modules to add to our growing list of parts available for our build.

More soon.

Wall and Family

 

[matriachamplification]

Hello friends,

Wilma has confirmed the purchase of a console from Christian, a talented tube technician hailing from awesome Germany!!!... whom deals in Telefunken and similar parts almost exlusively. EAB and Geitling are just two more titles that work into the growing branches of the Telefunken family tree.

We are also learning more and more about Oliver Archut whom had a big part in EAB Geitling Consoles and Telefunken. It is still to early for us to comment on any details for certain outside of sharing the above GDIY link.

We now have a solid set of Telefunken hits that plays out beautifully but first we have some critical details to share about the official EAB Tube Console.

EAB Geitling 8 x 2 Channel Vintage Tube Broadcast Console

• 8 x VE12P preamplifiers/passive eq with E383CC Tubes
• 2 x VS21 main amplifiers with EF806S Tubes

EAB VE12P Channel Strip
Tube Microphone Preamp w/ Passive EQ + Integrated Danner Fader

• Mic Pre
  60dB of gain
  E283CC tubes x 2​
• Passice EQ
  Two band EQ -12dB / +9dB
  Presence boost + 8dB
  Selectable Frequencies​
• Danner fader​

EAB Geitling VS21 Tube Amplifier

"The basic (VS21) circuit is very similar to the Telefunken V41 mic pre, but instead of EF12's, three very low noise EF806s (the same type we use in our V72S) do the 47dB end boost, controlled via a Danner made fader. Plate choke and output x-former are identical to the V41." TAB - Telefunken

With schematics being translated, we are now able to learn more about Oliver Archut and how we can bridge some of his Tube designs into our lesson plans.

Hopefully someone out there finds this to be an interesting read. We are enjoying this avenue of Tube Tech design.

More soon!

Wall and Family

 

[rock soderstrom]

Vintagetools.de could be interesting for you.


https://www.vintagetools.de/OTHER-GEAR/Deals/TELEFUNKEN-Ela-V504-vintage-4-channel-tube-mixer.html
https://www.vintagetools.de/EAB-Geiling-V65c-vintage-tube-mixing-desk.html
https://www.vintagetools.de/OTHER-GEAR/Deals/VTCR-TELEFUNKEN-V76f-2-ch-rack.html
https://www.vintagetools.de/OTHER-GEAR/Deals/Dual-TAB-U73-tube-limiter-VTCR.html
and a nice mic...

https://www.vintagetools.de/VT-RACKS/Already-sold-gallery/Neumann-U67-vintage-tube-microphone.html
I have no business connection to these guys, I'm just in their email distribution list and received news today that fit your topics.

 

[matriachamplification]

Vintagetools.de could be interesting for you.


https://www.vintagetools.de/OTHER-GEAR/Deals/TELEFUNKEN-Ela-V504-vintage-4-channel-tube-mixer.html
https://www.vintagetools.de/EAB-Geiling-V65c-vintage-tube-mixing-desk.html
https://www.vintagetools.de/OTHER-GEAR/Deals/VTCR-TELEFUNKEN-V76f-2-ch-rack.html
https://www.vintagetools.de/OTHER-GEAR/Deals/Dual-TAB-U73-tube-limiter-VTCR.html
and a nice mic...

https://www.vintagetools.de/VT-RACKS/Already-sold-gallery/Neumann-U67-vintage-tube-microphone.html
I have no business connection to these guys, I'm just in their email distribution list and received news today that fit your topics.

Hello Rock Soderstrom,

thank you so much for the thoughtful share. We are signing up to their service now.

We are beyond thankful!

Wall and Family

 

[matriachamplification]

Hello friends!

First off we changed the title to call this a "Vintage German Tube Console Build". Similar to the Western Electric spread of Companies, V72 is a historical growth of tube development that all parties in Germany seemed to played a part in.

@rock soderstrom has opened the floodgates of conversation here on the hot pepper farm and things are heating up! If you are interested in German Audio Engineering VintageTools and their team (Oliver) have curated something niche.

As Wilma was admiring and praising some of the German design our 14yr son pipes in
"It's still not a Thompson-Bell Mom"
"So... Lets make it one"

V72 Technology.

It seems History has deemed the advancement of V72 Tube Technology to be dubbed V72 Technology. (V7X). There is no factual foundation of whom or where this tech fully developed. As we have learned in this thread, there are several German Companies, including military applications, that were developing German Commuications Systems in the early days of the V72 (or similar era Tube Tech) that it only stands to logically reason design notes got lost in the shuffle and the title V72 Technology came to be.

I like to think/suspect that somewhere deep in the dusty vaults of USA or Russian secret Government warehousing there lies hidden documentation that reveals some clue to the full lineage of this mysterious "V72 Technology." Regardless, the designs are terribly well developed and beautifully layout out.

FAMILY BUILD STUFF

In regards to "Kubrick", our visual console design initiative, German or similar era/area Tube Engineering is really unique and interesting enough to officially model our first Custom Tube Consolette off of. This means I am now able to commit to drafting a schematic without hesitation.

Here is how it works
We build or rebuild a vintage tube console to spec. We have selected the German Console pictured. At the same time, we build a Custom Tube Console version that mirrors the vintage console build as much as possible.

The German Tube Console/Custom Tube Consolette Conversion Notes

• Console is flush with the desk
• The desk matches the console & reel to reels, etc.
• There are NO "casettes" (single faceplate)

From here my experience learning Mr. Thompson-Bell' designs came into play.

We have to move the Beam Meter to the right hand side above the master/monitor controls making space for the CTC Eurochannel and Passive EQ Cards and their controls.

I am not certain but there is an issue with the VS21 VE1212P micpre' Tube compliment that causes one of the tubes to short if pushed to hard. The light indicators at the base of the faders "could" double as an alart for the tube issue. (Learned from Tab-Telefunken somehwere). No matter. We are building a V72 console and have not heard of any similar concerns.

Lastly... there is NO way in bloody hell I am building a slightly gold console (unless it were made of actual Gold). Like most all my conscepts, this will be finished in Shadow Black or Pearl Whilte, complimented with the brilliance of High Gloss Royal Purple.

There are apparently V72's with integrated Passive EQ and Fader much like the VS21 we researched and included above. These would be ideal for a build but likely extremely hard to find. Oliver and the team at Vintagetools are going to be on the lookout for us as well as Christian. We are still going to be bringing the VS21 Tube Console into Canada for investigation and rebuild of some kind.

More details coming as we source the proper modules for this design.

Wall

 

[matriachamplification]

Seems I have lost control of what I am building. Wilma has been kind enough to give me some clarification.

The VS21 Amplifiers and VE12P Channel Strips will be reformatted into a layout that can best mirror a Maihak V45 - Custom Tube Console design. We have 8 x VE12P and 2 x VS21 to build from along with the beam meters and meter amps all listed above to get started. We have several Eurochannel and Redd CTC Cards almost ready to go as well as SMS? working with us to create the enclouses in the Maihak V45 fashion.

Our German Tube Broadcast Console will be an exact Replica in Black of the Telefunken Broadcast Console (image shown above) with one serious change in focus.

Siemens Tube Broadcast Console

Again @vintagelove has really helped bring our initiative together getting things going well above and beyond anything we could have ever imgined. With many vintage tools being brought into Canada, here are the critical gifts he has contributed relevant to this conversation.

As mentioned to VL, Wilma LOVES these faders and VL has shared the perfect image to get the Kubrick design initiative started.
She made mention that Siemens eliminates "shopping" for modules and now she can look at specific pieces to design a masterpiece around. It aids with client conversations regarding her process to equipment selection as well as her showroom layout. Fortunately she has the network to design a few critical listening rooms around and now has interest in my side of design as well as her interests.

6 x AUSO - Siemens Faders
1 x Siemans V72 (on tentative order from Vintagetools)
1 x U70 Beam Meter
1 x U70 Meter Amp

Siemens has actually played an outside part in our lesson plans development and if I could find the Trades Training Manual they inked and that we built our early lesson plans structure from I will share it.

Lastly VL has helped us begin to build out a critical part of our measurments, testing and referencing initiative. As many know, I hate corporate anything. I despise the broken line of information between manufacturer, distributor and retailer. And more so then anything else I loath the "work to order" attitude that exists in many facets of reality. That said... he has contributed a custom tube mic pre as well as a Racked V72 to begin our esoteric X/Y/Z mic pre referencing system. Very cool!

All in all I am running out of patience awaiting parts which is fortunately giving me time to formulate a lot of these starting conversations here on GDIY. As lackluster as my ramblings are they provide me with a real time reminder of what I am doing.

Now looking for Siemens Parts

Wallace, Wilma and The Kids

 

[iampoor1]

V72 Technology.

It seems History has deemed the advancement of V72 Tube Technology to be dubbed V72 Technology. (V7X). There is no factual foundation of whom or where this tech fully developed. As we have learned in this thread, there are several German Companies, including military applications, that were developing German Commuications Systems in the early days of the V72 (or similar era Tube Tech) that it only stands to logically reason design notes got lost in the shuffle and the title V72 Technology came to be.

I like to think/suspect that somewhere deep in the dusty vaults of USA or Russian secret Government warehousing there lies hidden documentation that reveals some clue to the full lineage of this mysterious "V72 Technology." Regardless, the designs are terribly well developed and beautifully layout out.

Have you read Olivers history of the V72? I think its origins and subcontractors are pretty well laid out. I dont think Ive ever heard the phrase "V72 technology" either...so that might actually muddy the waters and make things more confusing. Most of the variations on V72 modules were for specific applications. Not a huge mystery why there are so many when you are dealing with trying to get high performance out of two tubes in a standard format.

https://www.tab-funkenwerk.org/history-of-tfk/the-v72-history/

 

[matriachamplification]

Have you read Olivers history of the V72? I think its origins and subcontractors are pretty well laid out. I dont think Ive ever heard the phrase "V72 technology" either...so that might actually muddy the waters and make things more confusing. Most of the variations on V72 modules were for specific applications. Not a huge mystery why there are so many when you are dealing with trying to get high performance out of two tubes in a standard format.

https://www.tab-funkenwerk.org/history-of-tfk/the-v72-history/

Wicked share! THANK YOU! Reading now with much excitement.

Yes... I do admit that when I engage in FULL research there are many conversations that add to the "muddy waters" of factual events. The reasoning we engage in these more confusing conversations is for clarification.

 

[matriachamplification]

https://www.tab-funkenwerk.org/history-of-tfk/the-v72-history/

Was this written by Oliver Archut? We have read this but it was so long ago most of it has been forgotten. Great reminder

 

[rock soderstrom]

In case you don't know this site yet:
http://audio.kubarth.com/rundfunk/index.cgiHere you will find concentrated nearly all relevant schematics and service manuals for german broadcast and studio electronics classics.

Member DaveP has made some translated descriptions of some of these IRT Braunbuch Beauties.

 

[ruffrecords]

I would like to add my own perception of the V72 family in the context of the UK recording industry and its influence on my own designs. Back in the 50s at EMI Abbey Road, the mixing desks they built themselves were stuffed full of more or less fixed gain V72 modules. In those days mixers were built from standard fixed gain blocks separated by attenuators, either variable or fixed, in order to achieve the desired gain at each stage. This was a conceptually simple yet inflexible and expensive way to build a mixer. It also has technical disadvantages in that every time you include an attenuator you increase noise and every time you include fixed gain you worsen headroom. Later, EMI developed its own more or less fixed gain amplifier module the REDD 47 that was much cheaper than the V72 but it still made mixers the same way it always had. Then in the 60s with the advent of transistors, tiny gain blocks became dirt cheap and what is more you could vary the gain itself rather than having to use fixed gain block plus an attenuator. This meant you could much better manage headroom and noise and also gave you great flexibility. Unfortunately tube mixers never got to evolve in the same direction and soon became items of curiosity.

The above summarises what I discovered when I first set out to build a tube mixer. Indeed, my first designs were fixed gain blocks with attenuators in between just like the vintage tube mixers. My Classic Solo design still follows this paradigm. What I wanted to do was create a variable gain amplifier like the transistor ones with all its advantages. The problem is that to do it you need to vary negative feedback over a wide range which turns out to be very hard to do with tubes without creating stability problems. The V78 gave me a clue and I eventually created my own design which can vary the gain from 6dB to 40dB with no stability issues. This is now the basis of the EZTubeMixer mic pre and the Twin Line amp (TLA) board which are central to all my mixer designs.

Cheers

Ian

 

[matriachamplification]

LONG POST. But if your interested in our progress and tube gear....

Hand to the Gods, tried as we have it has been nerely impossible to find/hire someone willing to tackle the lead on our Custom Tube Console build. In everyone we connected with' defence, I am insane

This week we've had the pleasure of connecting/working with Oliver at Vintage Tools and were pleasently surprised to discover that he was already aware of the Custom Tube Console family build. Which is pretty cool!

Up front Oliver has cautioned us regarding the fast rising prices and demand/competition for Telefunken Tube Modules along with the downsides to vintage builds. Furthermore offered a great plan to layout a actual vintage V72 tube console build. We're in the LONG game now. More on this and the BOM for this very soon!

~~

Wilma has grown quite fond of learning/purchasing from private collectors and her very favourite vintage tube collector is @vintagelove we met right here on GDIY. Introducing her first Official Voice Over Microphone, Nuemann KM64 ( @rock soderstrom ) donated to our Museum by @vintagelove (along with some other treats we will get to).

A bit of critical History about our family. Wilma and our son have contributed countless voice overs to dozens of video game characters for all the major companies. Furtermore, she is better versed in audio gear then most from her past dealings with Long and McQuade. She has owned and sold successful Audio Companies that still exist to this day. You want success... well she has all the connections to connect builders in ways well beyond what you may think. And she owns a hot sauce company, which VL is very fond of

~~~

Again to drive this point, I am medically and legally insane (not criminally) and much of the comfort level I had working or creating for clients professionally sadly vanished with my diagnosis of D.I.D, along with much of my memory.

While in Therapy, enter Mr. Ian Thompson-Bell...
wait just one second here... because this is relevant.

I TOLD everyone in group therapy that there was a Custom Tube Console capable of hosting 12 channels in a standard 19 inch small footprint desktop format featuring swappable card system all devised on an Open Sources DIY builders lesson plan. They all looked, ever single person I told! They looled at me like they had no idea what I was talking about. Like I was daft for thinking such a thought... they said I was crazy! Who is the insane one now Dr. Rushmore... huh! Take your 50 milgrams of powder and... sniff it! JK.

~~

What Medical Therapy could not crack in over 30 years, took Mr. Thompson-Bell 2-3 years of patience teaching his CTC designs. Nof'ing joke. This was and is considered a marvel to our medical support team. Much of this is laid our right here on GDIY for anyone to investigate.

To date, we have recieved $12,500 cad in Canadian Government Grant Funding to continue with our "Experimental Therapy". So if it seems to others like we are cash wealthy, we are not. I am simply smart and bootstrapping buisnesses and have made some choice investments to reflect my interest. Plus... We've worked diligently to get this far, and will continue to until I feel I can rest. This will happen when our 4 yr daughter master CTC designs (or I get a 1 million dollar grant which ever comes first).

~~

As of late... we've been considering reviiving our "Family Voice Over" Side-Hustle with Tracking To Tape and Vintage Tube Vocal Pipeline being our featured selling niche.

Thoughts? If you have interest in a career in Game Audio or Big Studio Design. Wilma is way ahead of the curve on this. Talk to us. Tell us what you think is your contributing factor. We are an open book!

~~~

All in all... Wilma rules. She even has a beer made for her with artwork in her image. She was a cheerleader in Highschool... I was a geek.

She is also working with VL on her FIRST Consolette! She even has orders from customers lined up.

Live to Lean!

Wallace, Wilma and the kids.

 

[ruffrecords]

Something like 1 in 10 people experience mental illness sometime in their life but you very rarely hear about it. There is still a stupid stigma attached to it, but the brain is the most complex organ in the body and we all know what happens to complicated pieces of kit. Fortunately in most cases it can be fixed and one of the best ways to do this is to share information about how it went wrong for other people. And that is what therapy basically is - sharing experiences about brain problems. Two decades ago I experienced this first hand and it was extremely debilitating. Fortunately I had a sympathetic employer and instead of keeping it to my self I let people know what was happening to me. It was then I discovered I was surrounded by colleagues with similar experiences and talking to them and sharing experiences was the best therapy ever. So Wall, you keep going mate, we all got your back.

Cheers

Ian

 

[matriachamplification]

Something like 1 in 10 people experience mental illness sometime in their life but you very rarely hear about it.

Hello Mr. Thompson-Bell,

Many thanks for this. I think it is beneficial that people hear about this topic from someone respected here on Group DIY like yourself.

We should mention that Mr. Doug Williams (@emrr ) contributed no small part in this rehabilitation with his threads here on GDIY being the catalyst to how we were offered grant funding to purchase vintage tube consoles. (ITA + Langevin)

Tip: Finding people whom you admire and who are willing to work with you carrys a lot of value in and of itself.

Both @ruffrecords & @emrr have been informed of many small projects in the works that combine to make a much larger empire. Like any true (candid) Empire member, we accept the true power of the dark side of the force... blindly.

German Engineering is, from our understanding, on the highest end of cost as well as sourcing parts difficulties. For this reason it became our Large project. Build a vintage console and a CTC in its image.

BOM for the GTC is now almost complete,

Wall

 

[Michael Tibes]

It seems History has deemed the advancement of V72 Tube Technology to be dubbed V72 Technology. (V7X). There is no factual foundation of whom or where this tech fully developed. As we have learned in this thread, there are several German Companies, including military applications, that were developing German Commuications Systems in the early days of the V72 (or similar era Tube Tech) that it only stands to logically reason design notes got lost in the shuffle and the title V72 Technology came to be.

I can't fully lay out the history of this German Audio technology, but in my understanding there is a clear line from probably the 1930s to the V7xx technology in the 1960s. In my understanding it originated from a government funded development hub (under different names over the decades) which developed or laid out devices which were then build by external companies. The Nazis were supposedly the first to use PA technology for Hitlers speeches. Taking the also newly developed light installations which they also used for that into account, they basically laid the foundation for any modern rock concert. They also had a great interest in radio technology to make themselves heard in every German flat - for that they needed radios, recorders and mics/preamps. Great effort went into this to achieve the 'Volksempfänger' - 'peoples radio' - the first widely affordable radio - and the broadcast technology feeding the program. Afaik the V41 design goes back to the late 30s/early 40s? This design was the predecessor of the V76 and the V72. The V76 schematic diagram is still signed IRT - Institute for Radio Technology - not by any company name. This institute developed a lot of these devices and laid out the guidelines and rules for the technology used in German radio and TV stations. Until the 80s (as far as I remember) there were no private radio or TV stations in Germany, so the IRT was the central hub for development, testing, approval and documentation for all the technology involved. There was a collection of descriptions with schematics for pretty much all the mics and amplifiers in use, called 'Braunbuch' - brown book. I copied all the material I could get hold of in the 90s and gave a bunch of the most relevant schematics to Kubi a long time ago, which helped kick off his collection back then.

I believe that the radio stations were the biggest clients for the V4x / V7x technology and the 'studio consoles' - like at abbey road - were a side business, making use of the already developed high end technology. I am not aware of any military use of that technology. It also does not seem very usable for the military in terms of ruggedness and power consumption.

From todays perspective it is difficult to comprehend for me, why they still labeled their amplifiers Vx - after the use of V1 and V2. Also labeling the documentation 'brown book' - while brown is the color associated with the Nazis - feels weird to me. But I guess that is a distant reflection some 70 years later...