john12ax7
Well-known member
I never viewed the VPR specs as anything more than nominal dimensions. 1.5"x5.25" is the grid much like 1RU is 1.75"x19". It's up to the designer to make their own suitable fabrication drawings.
groupDIY 500 series mechanical specifications
- Thread starter ruffrecords
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
Brian Roth
Well-known member
I am in sync with everyone here. API originally said they would void the warranty of their racks if third-party modules were used. Their next step was the VPR Alliance that "certified" modules (for a fee?) and API states:
"API’s chief benefit from the Alliance is the elimination of confusion as to which third party products void the API warranty and which do not."
For modules sent for their their approval, API says:
"API will review the unit for specification compliance only, with current draw and physical dimensions being top priority, and the sample will be returned as promptly as possible."
Of course, we can all ignore API voiding their rack warranty. OK with me!
Bri
"API’s chief benefit from the Alliance is the elimination of confusion as to which third party products void the API warranty and which do not."
For modules sent for their their approval, API says:
"API will review the unit for specification compliance only, with current draw and physical dimensions being top priority, and the sample will be returned as promptly as possible."
Of course, we can all ignore API voiding their rack warranty. OK with me!
Bri
MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
[Am I the only person on this forum who can create a PCB-fabrication/mechanical design fabrication document like these? - No] -- ok, then.....why do I fail to see anyone else's mechanical drawings on this forum show any proper differentiation between 2- and 3-place callouts, let alone even has a correct datum, properly shows a detailed countersunk-hole callout, goes to the extent of including both Imperial and metric dimensions and on and on? WHY??? Because I don't think anyone else on this forum even knows what the differences are or what they even mean in reality. That's why someone would respond back with just a "No".
I will put things this way.....should I have ever dimensioned any of my mechanical detail fabrication drawings in the same manner as to what is so commonly shown here on this forum, I would have been fired immediately!!! Just placing a bunch of dimensions on and around an object doesn't "make them as being correct". In the world's I have always worked within, there are industry-standard methods, protocols and techniques that are -- demanded to be used -- when creating a proper "mechanical detail fabrication drawing" and I just completely simply fail to see ANY of the drawings shown on this forum as meeting ANY of the ANSI Y14.5 standards!!!
Perhaps this GroupDIY forum should just leave the final "500-Series Mechanical Detail Fabrication Drawings" to be created by either @13engrsapper or @sahib or @Brian Roth because they're so good at performing this function already.....ya think???
/
http://mmi172wp.pbworks.com/w/file/fetch/79999706/Workhorse-OS-DataSheet-v4.pdf Radial had some specifications. The width for their modules is 1.488, so not 1.5.
MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
[1.488, so not 1.5] -- That's only RADIAL Engineering's "interpretation" of the VPR Alliance's specification. Besides, their 1.488" dimension is only a -- 0.012" -- clearance tolerance, which is "razor thin"!!! Should you have your front-panels powder-coated, the powder-coating itself will consume at least half of that clearance tolerance. Besides, their mechanical detail drawings -- DON'T -- conform and/or meet any ANSI Y14.5 design/drafting standards!!! Or, are even CLOSE in doing so!!! PHOOEY ON THEM!!!.....
/
ruffrecords
Well-known member
You are clearly very skilled and experienced at mechanical design and drawing and we value your contributions. However, most of the contributors to this forum do not have your depth of skills and at the present point in the discussion little if anything is cast in concrete. We are still trying to home in on a specification and at some point it will become necessary to draw it with the precision and attention to detail that you posses. I would just ask you to be a little more patient. We will get there.
Cheers
Ian
sahib
Well-known member
API's original specification for current draw is 130mA per rail / per module. Radial has increased this to 160mA. Our modules draw about 140mA average (this is because they have a lot going on). There are independent modules that draw even more. Now the API Lunchboxes also provide 250mA per rail/per slot and I would imagine this is to allow independent modules to be used on API racks. Otherwise the format is in a completely different place now and commercially it would be unwise to limit your product.
Last edited:
MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
>> Have you seen the -- STL -- files I created for you of the TAKACHI Enclosure "CF45-28GS" side-cheeks in another thread?
/
Nobody is saying that, a little sensitive? You asked if you were the only one who could do this, I responded. "No," as I can, and I am sure there are a number of industry designers/engineers and CAD professionals from other industries with an interest in music lurking here other than us.
"Why don't I submit all the drawings?"
We are slammed, studio is in full swing so we are a man down EVERY day... and once a week or so he drags more stuff back from the studio for repair or modifications... Because some of us have other work to do, or are not retired, and are still actively working in music, or have a backlog of client projects and personal projects ahead of this??? I am sure there are a multitude of reasons others don't or can't.
Plus you seem to enjoy it and are good at it, so why interfere. Again, all I caught was you asking if you were the only one here who could. Perhaps the question should have been, "am I the only one who wants to" or "would anyone like to learn how?"
I will have limited contributions to this, not a big 500 series guy here, not enough elbow room for me. Maybe I will get infatuated someday. 99.9% of what we do here is build-wise is 2, 3, or 4U. I do not think I have ever cut/built a 1U anything, much less a 500 series. I do TOTALLY like the modular concept but I need room like a NEVE module size, and enough current for lots of tubes - or transistors - or both. Maybe I will call it the TRAMP rack (for Tony and SCAMP) and build doublewide scamp sized modules, lol.
I contribute what I can when I have time, and usually only if it is something I am going to work on, or have actually put hands on. But as a business, I can't give away the farm; plus we are busy soldering. I am lucky to have time to take a break (like now) and have my coffee as I rest between "project blocks" which are my new thing this year. If you see me as on here 24/7, it is likely because I forgot to sign out.
Back to coffee, decaf for you my friend and smile... Nobody wants to replace you or your contributions, or is trying to "outdo" you
-Tony
Last edited:
Brian Roth
Well-known member
@MidnightArrakis I am not highly skilled when it comes to mechanical design and/or drawing. That is your skill. If I seemed to claim otherwise, I apologize.
My comments in this thread relate to the decades-old presence of the API standard that became a defacto industry standard. Along the way, they decided to void their warranty if non-API modules were used in their equipment. That was followed by them NOT voiding their warranty if they "blessed" a module through their (paid?) VPR process.
Their published mechanical docs are clearly not suitable for manufacturing.
Bri
My comments in this thread relate to the decades-old presence of the API standard that became a defacto industry standard. Along the way, they decided to void their warranty if non-API modules were used in their equipment. That was followed by them NOT voiding their warranty if they "blessed" a module through their (paid?) VPR process.
Their published mechanical docs are clearly not suitable for manufacturing.
Bri
ruffrecords
Well-known member
Yes I have seen them. Thank you very much for doing that. I am now just working out if I can print my own with a nice built in logo. Unfortunately they are too big for my current 3D printer. I may have to upgrade it. Work in progress.
Cheers
Ian
MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
[Thank you very much for doing that] -- No problem!!! My pleasure!!! ..... Since you have expressed such excitement, glee and joy about your new 3D-printer and with you having made a mention about being able to 3D-print the side-cheeks of this mini-mixer, I just thought that you would get a real kick out of having something really spiffy to 3D print-out. In fact, in my creating the -- STL -- files for these side-cheeks, I found out how I am able to switch between -- STL-ASCII -- and -- STL-BINARY -- file formats. In addition, I am also able to either accept a default "tolerance" setting of 10% or change it to something else. In the case of these two -- STL -- side-cheek files, I have tightened the tolerance down to 5%. Compared to the previous -- STL -- files I have provided you with, let me know if these new files cause any hiccups, OK???
-- TALLY-HO!!! --
/
MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
>> API 500 series, or is it 51x alliance? <<
While the API 500 Series is only gaining on popularity there's a large number of fans that turn to the 51x Alliance, a project by a few members of the groupdiy fora. The 51x series is more or less a clone of the original API 500 Series, but adds a number of advantages.
The API 500 series Rack has a few different versions, like the 6 unit portable lunchbox, perfect for on the road, or the 19 inch version wich can contain up to 10 modules. You can find modules for the API 500 Series pretty much everywhere, froms cheap S&M Preamps to the Emperical Labs DerrEsser, even companies like Aphex, Grace Design, or Heritage Audio build modules for the API 500 Series under the VPR Alliance. You can find a list of all official VPR supported modules on APIAudio.com
A lot of companies picked up on the API 500 series, by providing a similar system supporting all the modules under the VPR Alliance, including their own version of well know modules. There's the Radial Workhorse, IGS Panzer 500, Purple Audio and even a USB version by Aphex, with a built in Converter.
These API enthusiasts ate the groupdiy fora, and especially Volker from Silent Arts, and Jeff at Classic-API, and the guys from AudioMaintenance started their own Alliance, and built their own DIY version with an added +24V/-24V Voltage Rail, so that even classic Neve, Neumann or Telefunken modules can be build. In a standard 51x Rack you can fit up to 11 modules, the external PSU supports up to two racks for a total of 22 modules!! And of course all original API 500 Series modules are supported, so you can by ready made product!
The DIY-scene behind the 51x-Alliance is a somewhat open-source group, with a lot of DIY kits for the 51x Racks, with preamps, DI's, compressors, tape saturators...!! A nice list is located at DIYrecordingequipment.com
Of course we at Eli-Audio instantly ordered a full kit including two 19"racks so we can extend the studio with 22 Preamps, or buss compressors, or a DIY PPM meter, maybe we will even com forth with our Passive monitor controller in a 500 Series format! We are still waiting for components, because Volker at Silent-Arts has to source all pieces himself, and wrap them in kits, and he only does a series every now and then.
The 51x Alliance offers two versions of their racks, an original VPR, and their own 51x-rack with the added voltage rails, both racks support up to 11 modules. The external "floor box" psu comes in two version too, because of the extra voltage rails a custom transformer in needed providing all the different voltages. All Floor box PSU's can support up to two racks filled with up to 22 modules, depending on the power consumption of the modules you can put up to eleven VPR modules at 130mA each on the 16V power rails, and eleven 51x modules at 130mA each on the 24V power rails. Again, depending upon the power consumption of the modules you can put even more than 11 modules on the same voltage rail!
This 51x kit is a well designed, and built product, quality goes way before quantity!! A very professional PCB hosts the 16/18 pins edge connectors and XLR's, by the way all of them are Neutrik connectors! also the 19 inch rack is accounted for in the price!
Eleven space 51x style rack: €250 excl. BTW
- Metal work and all mounting screws
- Back plane pcb
- 11 x 3 pin male Neutrik connector
- 11 x 3 pin female Neutrik connector
- 11 x 16/18 pin card edge connector
- Neutrik 7-pin male XLR panel mount connector
- 32 x jumper
- 22 x 3 pin header 2,54 mm
- 10 x 2 pin header 5,54 mm
The Official thread on groupdiy has lovely pictures, common mistakes, frequently asked questions. The 51x disclaimer does tell you that some original VPR modules mights not fit into the 51x version rack without modification to the 51x rack, or the module itself. Because of the 18 pin edge connector wich mich be in the way for the outer case to pass. You can safely remove the metal enclosure of the original VPR module, and fit it in a 51x alliance version of the API 500 Series Rack! for examples, this way you can still put 550b EQ modules in a 51x version rack!
There's even a 12 space 51x rack with modularity in mind, you could build 12 pre's put them on top of 12 diy EQ's, 12 compressor, ... and finish every channel of with a buss-mixer and faders! Classic-API provides 8 space modular racks, too!
51x Floor Box PSU Bundle (Two DC Cables) €316,90 excl. BTW
- Floor box metal work and all mounting screws
- Floor box PSU PCB
- Floor box PSU components kit
- Custom made 188VA toroidal power supply transformer
- M4336 Heyco Cordgrip (trekontlasting)
- 4m LP7-Core DC power cable
- Neutrik 7-pin female XLR cable connector
For the DIY PSU there's a full help thread on groupdiy.com too. You can order the 51x alliance kit by sending an email to: kitorder[at]51xAudio[dot]com, you'll be automatically be send through to the person closesth to your location, this way you don't have to pay for taxes, import, etc. For Europe Volker is the guy! for exact €585,80 excl. BTW you have a complete kit, for €835,80 you get a double rack with floor box PSU giving you space for those 22 modules!
/
While the API 500 Series is only gaining on popularity there's a large number of fans that turn to the 51x Alliance, a project by a few members of the groupdiy fora. The 51x series is more or less a clone of the original API 500 Series, but adds a number of advantages.
The API 500 series Rack has a few different versions, like the 6 unit portable lunchbox, perfect for on the road, or the 19 inch version wich can contain up to 10 modules. You can find modules for the API 500 Series pretty much everywhere, froms cheap S&M Preamps to the Emperical Labs DerrEsser, even companies like Aphex, Grace Design, or Heritage Audio build modules for the API 500 Series under the VPR Alliance. You can find a list of all official VPR supported modules on APIAudio.com
A lot of companies picked up on the API 500 series, by providing a similar system supporting all the modules under the VPR Alliance, including their own version of well know modules. There's the Radial Workhorse, IGS Panzer 500, Purple Audio and even a USB version by Aphex, with a built in Converter.
These API enthusiasts ate the groupdiy fora, and especially Volker from Silent Arts, and Jeff at Classic-API, and the guys from AudioMaintenance started their own Alliance, and built their own DIY version with an added +24V/-24V Voltage Rail, so that even classic Neve, Neumann or Telefunken modules can be build. In a standard 51x Rack you can fit up to 11 modules, the external PSU supports up to two racks for a total of 22 modules!! And of course all original API 500 Series modules are supported, so you can by ready made product!
The DIY-scene behind the 51x-Alliance is a somewhat open-source group, with a lot of DIY kits for the 51x Racks, with preamps, DI's, compressors, tape saturators...!! A nice list is located at DIYrecordingequipment.com
Of course we at Eli-Audio instantly ordered a full kit including two 19"racks so we can extend the studio with 22 Preamps, or buss compressors, or a DIY PPM meter, maybe we will even com forth with our Passive monitor controller in a 500 Series format! We are still waiting for components, because Volker at Silent-Arts has to source all pieces himself, and wrap them in kits, and he only does a series every now and then.
The 51x Alliance offers two versions of their racks, an original VPR, and their own 51x-rack with the added voltage rails, both racks support up to 11 modules. The external "floor box" psu comes in two version too, because of the extra voltage rails a custom transformer in needed providing all the different voltages. All Floor box PSU's can support up to two racks filled with up to 22 modules, depending on the power consumption of the modules you can put up to eleven VPR modules at 130mA each on the 16V power rails, and eleven 51x modules at 130mA each on the 24V power rails. Again, depending upon the power consumption of the modules you can put even more than 11 modules on the same voltage rail!
This 51x kit is a well designed, and built product, quality goes way before quantity!! A very professional PCB hosts the 16/18 pins edge connectors and XLR's, by the way all of them are Neutrik connectors! also the 19 inch rack is accounted for in the price!
Eleven space 51x style rack: €250 excl. BTW
- Metal work and all mounting screws
- Back plane pcb
- 11 x 3 pin male Neutrik connector
- 11 x 3 pin female Neutrik connector
- 11 x 16/18 pin card edge connector
- Neutrik 7-pin male XLR panel mount connector
- 32 x jumper
- 22 x 3 pin header 2,54 mm
- 10 x 2 pin header 5,54 mm
The Official thread on groupdiy has lovely pictures, common mistakes, frequently asked questions. The 51x disclaimer does tell you that some original VPR modules mights not fit into the 51x version rack without modification to the 51x rack, or the module itself. Because of the 18 pin edge connector wich mich be in the way for the outer case to pass. You can safely remove the metal enclosure of the original VPR module, and fit it in a 51x alliance version of the API 500 Series Rack! for examples, this way you can still put 550b EQ modules in a 51x version rack!
There's even a 12 space 51x rack with modularity in mind, you could build 12 pre's put them on top of 12 diy EQ's, 12 compressor, ... and finish every channel of with a buss-mixer and faders! Classic-API provides 8 space modular racks, too!
51x Floor Box PSU Bundle (Two DC Cables) €316,90 excl. BTW
- Floor box metal work and all mounting screws
- Floor box PSU PCB
- Floor box PSU components kit
- Custom made 188VA toroidal power supply transformer
- M4336 Heyco Cordgrip (trekontlasting)
- 4m LP7-Core DC power cable
- Neutrik 7-pin female XLR cable connector
For the DIY PSU there's a full help thread on groupdiy.com too. You can order the 51x alliance kit by sending an email to: kitorder[at]51xAudio[dot]com, you'll be automatically be send through to the person closesth to your location, this way you don't have to pay for taxes, import, etc. For Europe Volker is the guy! for exact €585,80 excl. BTW you have a complete kit, for €835,80 you get a double rack with floor box PSU giving you space for those 22 modules!
/
