happy holidays

[scott2000]

Yup....that'll happen........that is a lot of work!!

  I like to do a nice heavy duty (white or light color usually) landscape fabric in the trench ......excess on one side, followed by some drainage rocks then the pipe...socked....holes down if applicable..more rocks ..then put the excess fabric over that......followed by whatever.......


I heard that foam peanut pre made drain stuff gets squished from some reading but it seems like an easy option....but pricier....

Still 12 years is a long time for that to work....... I guess some guys like to use solid pipe so they can snake them every so often but then you have to have more catch basins here and there.......


my neighborhood was built over a swamp..... bad drainage problems in some areas to say the least...... A couple feet down is some white clay stuff layer they put over the area  and no water gets past it from what I can tell ...... I have 5 drains around my home.......

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yup....that'll happen........that is a lot of work!!

it was harder to dig the first time... this time around the hardest part was digging up the sod over the pipe... I even sharpened my shovel with a file, that helped some but still hard (for me). It wasn't until 15' from the end that I figured out my (new this year) long handle axe was the perfect tool for slicing and dicing up the sod. (thats life, gives you the test first then only later the answers).

  I like to do a nice heavy duty (white or light color usually) landscape fabric in the trench ......excess on one side, followed by some drainage rocks then the pipe...socked....holes down if applicable..more rocks ..then put the excess fabric over that......followed by whatever.......

might have questions for you

I heard that foam peanut pre made drain stuff gets squished from some reading but it seems like an easy option....but pricier....

Still 12 years is a long time for that to work....... I guess some guys like to use solid pipe so they can snake them every so often but then you have to have more catch basins here and there.......

The original first 100' was slitted pipe with fabric wrap, last less than 25' length end section was cheap accordion plastic pipe.  After 12 years in the ground the cheap pipe broke up when I lifted it out... the old slitted pipe was full of wet sand and (too) heavy to lift easily, but intact.

my neighborhood was built over a swamp..... bad drainage problems in some areas to say the least...... A couple feet down is some white clay stuff layer they put over the area  and no water gets past it from what I can tell ...... I have 5 drains around my home.......

I know low/wet ground...  I get all my higher elevation neighbor's rain runoff...  Just uphill from me is an unending supply of fine sand that silts up all my rain ditches (and filled my buried drain pipe over a decade).. 

OK what do you know about silt fences? They use a woven fabric that filters out silt and lets water through, like a crude filter. Besides replacing my clogged pipe with a clear one, I am thinking of placing a silt filter 70' away upstream where the silt first enters my rain ditch system. I figure some silt fence material placed across the ditch at a shallow angle might capture silt from any slow moving  water. Fast moving water would just flow over it. Fast moving silt should just keep going out the other end.

I am going to use some pool skimmer socks as filters on my high side drain pipe ends..

I don't plan to live another 12 years so probably shouldn't worry too much about this. (that said I didn't plan to live this long.  : )

JR 

 

[PRR]

Hay-bale in the ditch is a simple silt filter.

Design (or observe) for 2 feet per second. Water at that velocity will move small stones. Under 1 foot per second won't move sand. It is usually acceptable to be slow most of the year, as long as you get several good gully-washers every year.

Velocity is largely proportional to SLOPE. For lot-size projects, 2 degree slope has to be carefully graded. 1 degree slope needs obsessive avoidance of dips.

With simple assumptions you figure a smaller pipe is higher velocity. This never works. The reduced hydraulic radius means more drag per pound of water, except on very short runs.

Since your job is low-slope and wants minimum maintenance, it would be fine design to use a 12-inch pipe. Slight preference for smooth (not corrugated). Will hold a lot of sand and still flow. The occasional hurricane will flush 90% of the stored sand along. Yes, I have priced 12" pipe and know your yard is not worth it.

There's always something. Short new 4" pipe from street ditch to pond. Windstorm tore all the 5-inch leaves off the trees into the ditch and then a heavy rain washed them into the pipe. Had to de-clog several times in the storm.

BTW: I was able to rent an excavator for $400/day delivered. It is worth it just for toy-value.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Hay-bale in the ditch is a simple silt filter.

almost every day I see a tractor driving by with a huge round hay bale... (to feed the cattle)  too simple for filtering my ditch.

Design (or observe) for 2 feet per second. Water at that velocity will move small stones. Under 1 foot per second won't move sand. It is usually acceptable to be slow most of the year, as long as you get several good gully-washers every year.

I spent a few hours today dredging sand out of my now open trench. I found several pieces of a broken glass bottle...  Last week while working on the ditch I dropped a pair of reading glasses (actually two pair) down into the ditch. I retrieved the pair on the dry side but the wet side was (is) lost in the mud... I still haven't found that missing pair of reading glasses. 

Velocity is largely proportional to SLOPE. For lot-size projects, 2 degree slope has to be carefully graded. 1 degree slope needs obsessive avoidance of dips.

I know I have marginal slope... but that is how they say life in Hickory.

With simple assumptions you figure a smaller pipe is higher velocity. This never works. The reduced hydraulic radius means more drag per pound of water, except on very short runs.

I am planning to replace the old 4" drain pipe with 2x 4" (over under)... My hope is this will speed up clearing the pipes but whatever... at less than $1 foot/ less than my labor is worth (to me).

Since your job is low-slope and wants minimum maintenance, it would be fine design to use a 12-inch pipe. Slight preference for smooth (not corrugated). Will hold a lot of sand and still flow. The occasional hurricane will flush 90% of the stored sand along. Yes, I have priced 12" pipe and know your yard is not worth it.

indeed... not even worth 6" pipe, but maybe 2x 4"  8) We do have occasional hurricanes and more frequent heavy rain. (see attachment from a recent rain)

There's always something. Short new 4" pipe from street ditch to pond. Windstorm tore all the 5-inch leaves off the trees into the ditch and then a heavy rain washed them into the pipe. Had to de-clog several times in the storm.

back when I first installed the drain pipe I had a grille on the bottom outlet end...  shortly it got blocked by leaves that came down the pipe and stuck in the outlet grille. 

BTW: I was able to rent an excavator for $400/day delivered. It is worth it just for toy-value.

After Katrina I paid maybe $700 total for a back hoe and bulldozer (and operator) that spent about a week rearranging dirt in my yard.

In hindsight my main oversight was not dealing with fine sand/silt in my rain ditches. Now I feel like I have a workable strategy.  The silt fence (filter) is icing on the cake to keep silt out of my rain ditch 50' upstream from the drain pipe.

JR

 

[scott2000]

(thats life, gives you the test first then only later the answers).

So true.... At least the answers reveal themselves . Sometimes that's all I end up getting out of a project .

After 12 years in the ground the cheap pipe broke up when I lifted it out... the old slitted pipe was full of wet sand and (too) heavy to lift easily, but intact.

Yeah.... I like the leach bed type pipe with the holes more on the bottom..... they seem to stay clean longer......the trench bottom (fabric and rocks in my scenario) fills first then the water goes into pipe from bottom and away with the pitch......

OK what do you know about silt fences? .

Delta dirt??  Never tried a silt fence.....can't say I've ever needed one although that one giant retaining wall I helped with just used that heavy duty fabric on several feet of dirt to keep the trench clean....... it's pretty tough stuff..... Never thought about the hay as a filter........we have a Tractor Supply I could go check out  .....

But yes the pitch is very important .....the leach pipe will allow for constant leaching after any water  fill, but it's best to get it right...

My issues here are more standing water.....not stopping a wall of water although I suppose a dry creek bed type of look could be cool to keep from having to cover a drain..

.... Always wanted to try one........ 

Lot of exercise....

yikes....just saw pic........ you could stock that thing.....
nice cut on the grass though...;D

 

[boji]

Happy Holidays  ;D

 

[scott2000]

AHAHAHAAHohohohoho

 

[JohnRoberts]

My issues here are more standing water.....not stopping a wall of water although I suppose a dry creek bed type of look could be cool to keep from having to cover a drain..

I don't have a before picture but my back yard used to be covered with standing water for a week after a modest rain fall, because the back rain drain system doesn't empty well. My front system drains fine... 3' culvert that flows well.

First I cut the swale (gentle rain ditch) with earth movers... that moves out the big water like in that picture from back to front, then I buried a drain pipe under the yard, get gets out the rest. At least it did for over a decade.  :-[

.... Always wanted to try one........ 

Lot of exercise....

yikes....just saw pic........ you could stock that thing.....
nice cut on the grass though...;D

Yes it is impressive when full... and flowing.. I bet a man could get sucked into the 3' culvert and spit out the other end if not careful.

JR

 

[alexc]

Some nice pics John ...  one of them reminds me of the song 'hickory winds'  from the byrds with gram parsons.

 

[CJ]

Merry Christmas and Happy New Years! 

 

[DaveP]

Happy Christmas to all you guys around the world that have imparted so much knowledge and support to this forum, I for one have benefited greatly.

Best wishes

DaveP

 

[gyraf]

Respect..!!

 

[rob_gould]

Happy Christmas everyone!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I just realized late last night that this summer when I had workers up on my roof, I had them place a screen grille over my chimney opening to keep the birds out... Now how does santa get in to come down?  :

Sure enough I wake up this morning with no new presents under my tree (not even a tree).

Merry Christmas all .. (looks like viagra will be a popular gift this year).

JR

 

[scott2000]

No tree here either ....

My wife has a customer and we do their Christmas tree set up many years (scratching a living) and this year ,time was too tight, they usually go away on a trip but this was a 2 day one,so I just used my pre-lit one for them instead of having to go find a tree and string lights.....saved a bunch of time and them a few bucks to fill up their Viper, BMW  and Maserati ???


They actually gave me a cool gift of 24 different Beers from Germany.....tall cans.........my wife gets the$ bonus....

I was actually considering sending you some of the beers JR(going to re-gift my brother in law some since we like to try different beers when we get together)  but I got a bit scared reading about the legality of it so, I abandoned the thought...

Does that still count as a thought if I abandoned it???

I'm still open to doing it.....

Merry Christmas!!!

 

[JohnRoberts]

No tree here either ....

My wife has a customer and we do their Christmas tree set up many years (scratching a living) and this year ,time was too tight, they usually go away on a trip but this was a 2 day one,so I just used my pre-lit one for them instead of having to go find a tree and string lights.....saved a bunch of time and them a few bucks to fill up their Viper, BMW  and Maserati ???


They actually gave me a cool gift of 24 different Beers from Germany.....tall cans.........my wife gets the$ bonus....

I was actually considering sending you some of the beers JR(going to re-gift my brother in law some since we like to try different beers when we get together)  but I got a bit scared reading about the legality of it so, I abandoned the thought...

Thanks for the sentiment but shipping beer to me would be like shipping coal to newcastle (they got coal). Take care of your brother in law he will appreciate it more than I. I've had my share of german beers over several decades (now it they were Belgian tripls that'd be different)..

Buy me a beer next time you see me in the bar.

Does that still count as a thought if I abandoned it???

yes

I'm still open to doing it.....

dont

Merry Christmas!!!

back at ya..

JR

 

[scott2000]

No Tripels??sp??

Looking at the alcohol content, they don't seem too potent.... I remember having some German beer that was  high content at some beer fest..... I think it was called something that sounded like Santa Claus actually now that I think about it.......lol

It's funny, the other night I had a wedding (neighbor's son) to go to and I brought some beer in a cooler in the truck in case the reception didn't have any I drink....The waiters at the fancy clubhouse were kinda freaked out but were cool. I only had one and ended up giving a couple of other ladies at the table some others because it just so happened to be their favorite too,,,,small world.....  In hind sight I suppose maybe it was not the best judgement...oh well.......

Can take the kid off of the street......

 

[JohnRoberts]

That German (cough) beer is amusing...

Classic German beer styles are pils (pilsner) and weisbier (wheat beer)... I saw a bunch of IPAs (India pale ale) on that list. Clearly a British beer and ironically the IPAs were lower alcohol than the rest. IPA was invented by the Brits as a high alcohol and highly hopped beer (both preservatives) to help beer survive the long unrefrigerated ocean journey from the British isle to India colony. IPAs only became popular recently when the unwashed discovered micro brews and were attracted to the IPA style because of the high hop content (you kind of had to hit them over the head with the flavor differences), the high alcohol attracted another segment of drinkers.

When I first got exposed to german beer in 1970 it was anything I wanted as long as it was pilsner, but every town brewed their own version in the local gasthous (small hotel). Even pilsner was 100x better than the 3.2% beer available at Ft Riley, KS.

Decades later I would chase down german Alts to drink (what passes for dark beer in Germany) when working German trade shows but still no comparison to UK stouts or porters (IMO).

Merry happy...

JR

PS: I did find a small Irish pub in Berlin once and was able to get a Guinness. I have also found Guinness in Hong Kong.

 

[PRR]

> *** some national parks may not get their roads snow-plowed

The National Christmas Tree was un-plugged, but somebody found funding.

My National Park is open, no snow, but all the restrooms are locked. (So mostly a January schedule in December.)

 

[boji]

Happy Christmas to all you guys around the world that have imparted so much knowledge and support to this forum, I for one have benefited greatly.

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