have we gone too far?

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pucho812

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o.k so this came  up  elsewhere this morning.

a person was making a claim that NAMM had racial injustices going on.  Their proof was that all the pro audio companies in ACC north(the main pro audio hall at winter NAMM this year) were  all white companies and that this one Spanish company doing audio rack units was off in another hall full of DJ's and synths. 

I made it a point to mention how to get a NAMM booth as clearly said person never had one or worked for a company who had one. I went into detail about timing, pricing, paperwork and logistics. How it is very easy to get a pro audio booth and not be in ACC north.  Several companies I know were placed in hall A and elsewhere but were pro audio companies.

But they were not having it.  they even went so far as to suggest that pro audio companies on purpose do not hire certain folks.  I have never had that be the case and that  pro audio and music are one of the few industries where your skill set and experience are  the most important thing  and things like race, creed, color, gender, orientation are often not  even consideration. It may or may not have always been that way I don't know. I got over 20 years working  and never gave it a thought. But I guess in the current climate people are looking at everything under a microscope and seeing things real and imagined.  what's your take on this? 
 

JohnRoberts

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the social justice warriors are more empowered than ever....

Give them time, they will start attacking each other...  ::)

JR
 

PRR

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"I went to Guilford [Maine] to ...Trump's visit today, thought you might be interested in the takeaway. Guilford is def  a Trumper town if there ever was one, but there was a healthy contingent  of resistance on scene as well. ........ In fact, it was a good time, with lots of banter from both sides, but the lack of vitriol was remarkable. Any really clever retort was met with laughter from both sides. It made me feel better about Mainers in general that despite strong feelings on both sides, courtesy was universal."

OTOH, all the swabs made in Guilford  today will be thrown-out. Despite continuing shortages (nursing home has just 7 swabs etc).
 

pucho812

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alright,  I bit. I decided to do some sleuthing work and look up the mentioned company. that was in the OP.

their location at NAMM this year was HALL A. their location was a corner of a row, that is in a highly  foot traffic area due to being next to universal audio.  I can't imagine this as a bad spot at all.  It was in the an area surrounded by other audio companies. going  down the row one way and boom you go deep into hall A and down into Hall B. Go the other way you pass UA, a few great companies, and into the dome which has the DJ stuff. it's a nice spot all around.
 

scott2000

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OTOH, all the swabs made in Guilford  today will be thrown-out. Despite continuing shortages (nursing home has just 7 swabs etc).


picard-facepalm.jpg
 

JohnRoberts

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living sounds said:
Yes, "Social Justice Warriors" making accusations, that's the real big problem now... Seriously folks...
IMO this has been a growing problem for years. The #metoo movement is just another example of unfettered social justice warrior empowered by cancel culture and social media. #metoo presumes that all men are guilty, the current Floyd tragedy, and BLM promotes the agenda that all police are racist.

MN is now talking about defunding and breaking apart their police deptartment.  :eek:

It is hard to imagine how people can propose this with a straight face, but yes IMO that is several steps too far.

JR
 

Gold

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JohnRoberts said:
#metoo presumes that all men are guilty,

No it doesn’t. It presumes that accusations should be taken seriously. It also presumes that a miniskirt is not an invitation to rape.

the current Floyd tragedy, and BLM promotes the agenda that all police are racist.

No it doesn’t. It says there is systemic racism. Systemic means the system not the individual.  Just like every white person in South Africa wasn’t racist during Apartheid and racism didn’t disappear after. There is the individual and the system. They are of course intertwined.

It is hard to imagine how people can propose this with a straight face, but yes IMO that is several steps too far.

Police are tasked with things that are better suited to social workers and others. No one is suggesting there doesn’t need to be law enforcement. Many domestic violence calls would be better handled by social workers. Same with homeless mental issues.
 

scott2000

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Police are tasked with things that are better suited to social workers and others. No one is suggesting there doesn’t need to be law enforcement. Many domestic violence calls would be better handled by social workers. Same with homeless mental issues.

Definitely can't argue with this to some degree.  Maybe a hybrid of sorts to protect the social workers while they protect the suspects...

 

JohnRoberts

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Gold said:
No it doesn’t. It presumes that accusations should be taken seriously.
all should... In my judgement #metoo has has flipped the presumption of innocence to a presumption of guilt. I'd offer examples but you probably think they're guilty too.
It also presumes that a miniskirt is not an invitation to rape.
Straw man....
No it doesn’t. It says there is systemic racism. Systemic means the system not the individual.  Just like every white person in South Africa wasn’t racist during Apartheid and racism didn’t disappear after. There is the individual and the system. They are of course intertwined.
semantic mumbo jumbo... statistics regarding police killing wrt race do not support the thesis of "systemic" racism. This is oft repeated but that does not make it true.

[-veer warning, I was reading an article in the WSJ this morning where the writer repeated a popular fake news lie, in passing, like it was true.... Not worth a letter to the editor,  "perception is reality", unfortunately. 

[veer update-  Apparently I wasn't the only person who saw the fake news. A day or two later in the "correction and amplification"  section they corrected the misstatement....  little and late but better than nothing.  /veer].
Police are tasked with things that are better suited to social workers and others. No one is suggesting there doesn’t need to be law enforcement. Many domestic violence calls would be better handled by social workers. Same with homeless mental issues.
Think about what you are suggesting... Community policing is 90% dealing with the small sh__. Do you think a layer of storm trooper back up can swoop in for the occasional emergency?  The system is not racist (IMO), but the existing rules about use of force during arrests can better managed (much better). As I have said before the one death, while tragic is not the real problem, it is "all" the arrested perps who didn't die but were harmed by the use of excessive force... THAT IS THE PROBLEM.  :mad:

Fix the actual problem don't tear down what is working.

JR

PS: The homeless issues is not a homeless issue but mental health problem. Millions of illegal aliens manage to live under a roof... this is an unintended consequence of reduced mental health services. The fix is easy, it just cost money.
 

Gold

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JohnRoberts said:
semantic mumbo jumbo... statistics regarding police killing wrt race do not support the thesis of "systemic" racism. This is oft repeated but that does not make it true.

There is no requirement for police departments to report this. There are no statistics. That is exactly a reform that is necessary. Every police killing should be investigated and reported federally.
[/quote]
 

pucho812

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guys guys, I was just looking a discussion about the world crying wolf. I have had a hell of a week sleeping a couple hour max a night  and dealing with b.s. related to those who's singular purpose is to not peacefully protest and wish to cause harm to people, businesses, and so on in my fair city and my inner circle.  luckily the studio was unharmed and even the guy on the roof the other night who claimed to be packing  eventually left without  major incident. The guy in the OP  eventually called me a racist  because I didn't support the notion that the one singular company was given their location at NAMM based on the fact they were from Spain.  Logic with people of this nature is non-existant, facts and figures do not matter. What's worse is they want to tell everyone they know  what they think about you because they say it is so. to said individual I am a racist.  This has potential to effect business.  I doubt it will but you never know. Plus any explanation of I am not a racist comes off as some way to  still be one  but get the people to think otherwise.  it's a no win argument, especially when their mind is made up.  while in hindsight it is  best to not engage such loons, at the moment seemed appropriate. Not everything is about race, creeds, color, genders, orientation or any combo thereof.    This past week there was a call to boycott sweetwater because their president chuck shurack(sp) apparently donated  money to then governor mike pence and his campaign back in 2016. Pence became trumps VP pick and the money went into the trump campaign.  What is really nobodies business turned into a sh*t storm with chuck releasing a statement about how he didn't know.  Then there was a rally of pro audio folks  saying how great sweetwater is  and how you should still shop there.  Will it effect business who knows and if so how much?

There has to be a point of enough. There are real issues, needing to be  address. then there are made up issues that the social media arm chair quarterbacks come up with  that do not really exist.  it's getting old when people cry wolf.  it's getting old having to defend any statement  that is different then what the masses demand you say.  2020 the year where people want to hear their opinions coming out of your mouth
 

Gold

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Your situation sounds extremely stressful.  I hope everything works out for the best. The NAMM thing sounds like BS.

 

pucho812

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Thanks paul.  Yeah the namm thing was completely stupid. A booth next to UA which gets high traffic volume can only be good for others around.

Oh well this too shall pass.
 

JohnRoberts

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Gold said:
There is no requirement for police departments to report this. There are no statistics. That is exactly a reform that is necessary. Every police killing should be investigated and reported federally.
As I have already suggested publish the body cam footage for the world to see.... Apparently somebody is ignoring the bad apples already being recorded. Perhaps making the officer's actual behavior while on duty public would make such bad behavior impossible to ignore and could  have the impact that body cams were already supposed to have.

Note: The officer who used lethal force against George Floyd was wearing a body cam that was supposed to be turned on. We shouldn't need random smart phone videos to inform us. Tax dollars have invested in many body cams, let's use that data, and let the chips fall where they may. 

JR
 

scott2000

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I don't doubt there was probably some kind of struggle before this all happened. I just can't see 3 or 4 guys sitting on someone just because. It still doesn't justify their actions after he was clearly under control. Pretty unrealistic to think he would easily get off the ground without the use of his hands..

I heard somewhere that 2 of the officers were only on the job for less than a week. They're saying they didn't feel they had the authority to question their superior's actions.....

Tragic.  We should expect more from people in this position of power. I used to work security for a couple of clubs and I know your mind can get away from you during a serious altercation but you'd think there would be better training for these officers..
I'm thinking Jack Reacher wouldn't have taken this approach. But that's fantasy unfortunately/fortunately....
 

Gold

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JohnRoberts said:
As I have already suggested publish the body cam footage for the world to see.... Apparently somebody is ignoring the bad apples already being recorded. Perhaps making the officer's actual behavior while on duty public would make such bad behavior impossible to ignore and could  have the impact that body cams were already supposed to have.

Note: The officer who used lethal force against George Floyd was wearing a body cam that was supposed to be turned on. We shouldn't need random smart phone videos to inform us. Tax dollars have invested in many body cams, let's use that data, and let the chips fall where they may. 

I agree with this.
 
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