History..... rhymes?

[JohnRoberts]

I hope the universities are gaining enough revenue from foreign students to make up for all the parents and alumni that they are pissing off.
===
Back on topic does anyone here remember 1968?

JR

 

[crazydoc]

Back on topic does anyone here remember 1968?

JR

Yes I do. It would have been the first time I was eligible to vote, and because of the shenanigans at the dem convention (back room deals, not the protests or police) I was left without a candidate to vote for, and didn't vote until 2000 against dubya.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes I do. It would have been the first time I was eligible to vote, and because of the shenanigans at the dem convention (back room deals, not the protests or police) I was left without a candidate to vote for, and didn't vote until 2000 against dubya.

If you liked that one wait for it.... the democratic convention is in Chicago again this year.

JR

 

[sodderboy]

I have passed closeby several German camps setup in Holland and Belgium during WW2 but never went inside ,
Ive also visited war memorials ,mostly in northern France , but also in Russia .

We of course had our own holocaust here in Ireland , known as the great famine , many of the buildings that were once workhouses still exist to this day , there is also mass graves that still stand testament to the lives lost ,

Its hard to estimate exact numbers as oficial population counts will include some who were either transported or left for the UK or the new world of Austrailia and America , the population was reduced from a peak of around 8.5 million in the 1840's to under 6 million by the 1860's .
People were systematically removed from their lands , impoverished , left uneducated , and finally faced with the choice of starve to death or leave the country .

In many ways Mike , the plight of the Palestinian people now is similar to what the Irish faced in the 1840's .
Should we be silent until the death toll reaches into the millions again ?
At what point exactly does willful starvation with genocidal intent become actual genocide ?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_population_of_Ireland

Soooo your answer is NO, you cannot show me or anyone the systematic annihilation of palestinians in Israel because there isn't any. No stashes, tiny or otherwise, of palestinian gold jewelry and dentalwork either. Maybe just some hungry, captive human shields, prisoners of their own peeps? Total windup or ignorant rubbish. Whose temple is built on the rubble of whose? The genocidal hatred is spouted by the "from the river to the sea" crowd, you have it backwards. You cannot equate a young man escaping his ghetto at gunpoint into a boxcar with another escaping his ghetto in a murdering buggering spree. Does not equate, does not compute! Savage terrorists are using their own civilian supporters as shields, and totally lying about any numbers of casualties, etc. They were given Gaza, what did they do with it? They up-armoured and tunneled beneath the soft targets and turned it into a cement fortress. Get real! Their own leaders kept them in a ghetto.
I think a big issue confusing libs/regressives is runaway positive feedback emotions. Emotion feeds into cults of personality for/against someone or something, and people do not really understand what they are for or against; they just dig in deeper. The climate? "You're against THE CLIMATE?!?" "You're against HUNGRY PEOPLE?!?" Virtue signaling is often ignorance signaling as well.
The problem is, once it is all burned down by the emotional, fire and orgies YAY!, the emotionless ghouls with The Plan arrive. The 20th Century is right there to see, folks. . .
I forgive you and will pray for ewe!
Mike

 

[cyrano]

45.000 people killed isn't a genocide to you? Well, the world disagrees...

Man, US education must be even worse than everyone figures. But you have one thing in common with zionists; you both believe you're living in the promised land. And you're both religious, which usually ends all intelligent discussion. But it explains the delusion.

Nostradamus saw the parallels between the Western and the Roman imperium in a vision. It's eery to see the obvious downfall. The Thracians were amongst the last victims of the Romans before the Barbarians ended the Roman empire. Who will be the modern Barbarians?

You also obviously don't follow world politics. How many presidents and leaders will it take to realise what Israel is doing is a genocide? I've heard many compassionate and intelligent comments from African and Asian leaders. Most agree it's a genocide. Malaysia has just arrested an armed Israeli operative on a fake French passport. How long will it be before the Saudis speak up? They're calling it an "onslaught". Diplomatic, but how long will they keep it diplomatic? You can hear their representative squirming on C-SPAN:

https://www.c-span.org/video/?535461-6/fahad-nazer-saudi-arabia-israel-hamas-war

This genocide also shows how many European leaders are owned by the US-Israeli joint venture. They'll be gone after the next elections. Just like Biden. The protests aren't going away. And there is one thing that's probably unexpected for most observers: Israel finally succeeded in getting the Arab world to unite. That's while the "Five Eyes" joint venture starts showing the first cracks...

 

[cyrano]

 

[sodderboy]

So a guy who left the Labour party because it is not left enough is equating genocide in Gaza. Allrightey! I deliberately do not view much broadcast images because what people say is more important to me. A crap argument augmented by ghastly images is the same as a horrible movie plot with gratuitous violence or sex. The guy is preaching for his own extermination, and he went through it once already! The hooman condition. . . I guess it's like climate whores calling for the end of man, well, except for them and their friends and the people who will pay for their stuff.
I strive every day to overcome the inadequate education I received in government schools. No mention of Nikola Tesla in our Little Wonders science books back in the day as a small example. You cannot refute the truth I place in front of you, so you criticize your fantasy of my education? Allrightey!
Cy, the numbers are a lie, and inflated numbers are just now explained away as "confusion in the fog of war". You should read some books about war. Folks really get slaughtered when they dig-in and do not surrender. In the case of haji savages, folks get slaughtered regardless. In this case, the folks dyin' are useful idiots for the cause of their millionaire "leaders" who live out of country in luxury.
I just said it above, the folks there voted for what they are getting, civilian and combatant. But they were sold a bill of rotten goods. Their elected leaders turned the Gaza paradise given to them into the up-armoured ghetto it is. They are willfully dug in and have to be blown out of the schools, hospitals, homes for the aged, etc. No choice given their chosen field of battle.
I choose none of this, but my lands have been opened wide and are a real sweet field of battle for who knows who, who knows when. . .
Mike
PS: your same "world leaders" say NOTHING about christian genocide around the globe. crickets

 

[cyrano]

Well, the US lost the war in Vietnam too. Mainly because guerilla's fighting for their own land will always be stronger than an invading force from another nation that has no right to invade.

I don't understand how you can be so insensitive and use two standards. When Putin invades Ukraine, it's clear. But when Israel denies the rights of the Palestinian people and starts eliminating an entire people, Israel is right.

US senator Lindsey Graham is near to giving Israel nuclear bombs to end it all. It doesn't even dawn on him that if Israel uses those, it will also pollute it's own land. It's not WWII all over again.

Of course, if you follow the money, it is clear he's been bought: the Republican Jewish Coalition is his greatest financeer by far. But Nelson, Mullins et al are also distributing Israeli dollars.

Contributor                                       Total        Individuals         PACs
Republican Jewish Coalition                    $103,794    $95,555            $8,239
Nelson, Mullins et al                                 $71,613      $51,613            $20,000
US Government                                        $49,286      $49,286            $0
US Dept of Defense                                  $49,184      $49,184            $0
National Republican Senatorial Cmte       $44,600      $0                     $44,600

 

[cyrano]

PS: your same "world leaders" say NOTHING about christian genocide around the globe. crickets

I'm not sure what you mean.

You must have missed it. It was an item in the French senate just a few days ago and it has been mentioned by others. Oh, and they're not "my" world leaders.

The Christians in Gaza are canon fodder just like everyone else, including doctors, nurses and other aid workers. It's clear Israel doesn't want any witnesses, regardless of their nationality, color or anything else.

There have already been a number of suicides in the IDF, enough to trigger generals to advise to withdraw from Gaza, or at least Rafa. But Netanyahu can't afford peace. That would eliminate zionist support and he badly needs that thin majority ultra-right provides him.

This isn't about religion. It's about clearing the Gaza strip AND the Westbank from everyone, except Zionist jews. Several jews who oppose Zionism have been imprisoned or killed too.

While the world's attention is fixed on Gaza, Palestinians in the Westbank have been murdered by zionist settlers, imprisoned by police, without any reason, and tortured, raped just like anyone else who dares to stand in the way of the zionists. And that also includes children, clergy and even a few rabbis...

It's fascism at it's best. Nothing to do with jews, or judaism. Unfortunately, most of the jewish population of Israel is so blinded by propaganda, they can't see it.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Well, the US lost the war in Vietnam too. Mainly because guerilla's fighting for their own land will always be stronger than an invading force from another nation that has no right to invade.

I was drafted in 1970 so I paid especially close attention to the Viet Nam war. It was lost in the evening news when the public was shown horrible scenes every evening at dinner time. The public did not have the stomach for it.

International relations have always been at least a two way tug of war between good and evil, with each side thinking they are the good guys.

I don't understand how you can be so insensitive and use two standards. When Putin invades Ukraine, it's clear. But when Israel denies the rights of the Palestinian people and starts eliminating an entire people, Israel is right.

IMO that is a mischaracterization of what is going on. Putin's goals seem pretty transparent and allowing him to succeed in Ukraine will not stop him, but encourage him to encroach on other nearby neighbors.
===
The Palestinian's rights are being denied by Hamas. If you want to free Palestine get rid of Hamas. Over the years Hamas has redirected millions in international aid to construct underground tunnels and bunkers beneath hospital, schools, and even UN offices. They use innocent Palestinians as human shields. Ask yourself why Gaza's neighbors deny shelter to Palestinian refugees? This is not some pro-Israel conspiracy to kill Palestinians, this is other countries in the region acting in their own self interest. They don't want to allow Hamas's bad ideology to destabilize their own governments.

US senator Lindsey Graham is near to giving Israel nuclear bombs to end it all. It doesn't even dawn on him that if Israel uses those, it will also pollute it's own land. It's not WWII all over again.

IMO Iran is the developing nuclear threat in the region. I am not as good at mind reading as you are, but Iran has declared that they would like to make Tel Aviv glow in the dark.

Of course, if you follow the money, it is clear he's been bought: the Republican Jewish Coalition is his greatest financeer by far. But Nelson, Mullins et al are also distributing Israeli dollars.

Contributor                                       Total        Individuals         PACs
Republican Jewish Coalition                    $103,794    $95,555            $8,239
Nelson, Mullins et al                                 $71,613      $51,613            $20,000
US Government                                        $49,286      $49,286            $0
US Dept of Defense                                  $49,184      $49,184            $0
National Republican Senatorial Cmte       $44,600      $0                     $44,600

This is another old tired anti-Jewish screed, some of the most enduring anti-Jewish stereotypes have to do with money

JR

 

[cyrano]

I was drafted in 1970 so I paid especially close attention to the Viet Nam war. It was lost in the evening news when the public was shown horrible scenes every evening at dinner time. The public did not have the stomach for it.

So it would have been won if the public would have been kept in the dark?

Maybe you're right. But it's not democratic at all, is it? In fact, it is the essence of fascism.

International relations have always been at least a two way tug of war between good and evil, with each side thinking they are the good guys.

The USA have killed millions in the region. And all of that to please Israel and Saudi Arabia. But you're losing the Saudis. Even when there were clear signs they bankrolled 9/11 and proof they killed Kashoggi. Those who were instrumental in delivering Kashoggi to the Saudi embassy in Turkey now have companies in Israel, Cyprus and Russia. But that doesn't even worry the NSA in the slightest. Turkey was more upset and investigated a lot better than all the US agencies combined. Go figure.

IMO that is a mischaracterization of what is going on. Putin's goals seem pretty transparent and allowing him to succeed in Ukraine will not stop him, but encourage him to encroach on other nearby neighbors.

Probably, maybe. He stated he wanted to support the Russian speaking Ukrainians in the Crimea and Ukraine. But even the Russian speaking population has had to flee (except the fascists who joined the Russian military). Just like Netanyahu, Putin needs the fascists to stay in power. If he can't win the war, he'll be dead in a jiffy.

The Palestinian's rights are being denied by Hamas.

LOL.

Years ago, Palestine was run by the PLO. The PLO was secular. Hamas isn't. Jihad is harder to overcome, since it will unite fanatic Muslims. And not only Arab muslims. There's an awful lot of muslims in Asia, for instance. And they are closely following what's happening. Some are already on their way to Palestine to become martyrs...

And Hamas was democratically elected. Why? Because there wasn't any other fraction that could offer hope. All the other fractions were being sabotaged by Israel. I wonder why Hamas wasn't...

If you want to free Palestine get rid of Hamas. Over the years Hamas has redirected millions in international aid to construct underground tunnels and bunkers beneath hospital, schools, and even UN offices.

That's simply not true. There's plenty of money from the Saudis, Qatar and other rich Arab oil nations flowing to Mekka. And from Mekka it can go anywhere in the world, including the USA. Easy buying politicians if you have a nearly unlimited budget.

I know, because I audited several EU aid programs. Sure, some money got lost, but it didn't go to Hamas, or any other splinter group. It went to businesses in the UK, Gibraltar and Malta. I was a bit disappointed whit the results of the audit when it showed only 45% of the money reached the Bekaa farmers. I was later told that was a succes. Usually, it was far less...

Still it was way better than the US effort to stop poppy farmers in Afghanistan. They spent 5 billion, the result was the best harvest ever. Now, explain that to me. Of course, in the same year, Haliburton stole 20 million $ worth of fuel and sold it to unknown buyers in Pakistan. That was quickly covered up. It seemed nobody at the Pentagon wanted to lose face. And, hey, it was only 20 million. Compared to the poppy debacle, that was just a fly fart...

They use innocent Palestinians as human shields. Ask yourself why Gaza's neighbors deny shelter to Palestinian refugees?

Because that would please Israel immensely. They have a habit of bombarding refugee camps in Lebanon and elsewhere. Can you imagine Egypt being very wary about Palestinian refugees when the current govt of Egypt is secular and trying hard to stay away from Jihadi's. The Egyptian govt would effectively be between two fires. Israel on one side, the jihadis on the other side. The same goes for Syria and Iran. Syria is secular, Iran isn't. And who can we thank for Iran's conversion? Yeah, it's the USA. And Gaza would be empty, to be occupied by (zionist) settlers.

This is not some pro-Israel conspiracy to kill Palestinians, this is other countries in the region acting in their own self interest. They don't want to allow Hamas's bad ideology to destabilize their own governments.

Is there anything left to destabilise in Iraq, or Lebanon?

IMO Iran is the developing nuclear threat in the region. I am not as good at mind reading as you are, but Iran has declared that they would like to make Tel Aviv glow in the dark.

I'm not mind reading at all. I just observe and listen to many sources. Syria and Iran don't want Jihad either, but they are constantly being harassed by Israel and Jihadi groups. If they don't react, the Jihadi's will grow in power. If they do react, they're being harassed by Israel.

And where is the central leadership of the Jihadis? Right, it's in Mekka. Have you noticed Mekka is only in the news during Hadj. This gets royally ignored by the USA (and the UK).

This is another old tired anti-Jewish screed, some of the most enduring anti-Jewish stereotypes have to do with money

So it's OK to take Israel's bribes? It wouldn't be OK if it was Russian or Chinese money, would it?

It happens, you know. Ultra right here was bought by Russians (the party leader was a close friend of the Russian ambassador) and later by the Chinese...

Money clearly has no colour. Money isn't communist, even when it comes from the CCP...

 

[JohnRoberts]

I will likely regret this waste of time, I already do...

So it would have been won if the public would have been kept in the dark?

It "could" have been easily won if the military was unfettered.

Some classic advice from Sun Tzu's "The art of War" is to not allow politicians to be involved in prosecuting wars. With politicians responsive to public opinion they get whipsawed by each news cycle. Sadly this is better than the alternative.

My opposition to the Viet Nam war was simple self interest, and in fact I did get drafted, so my concern was real.

Maybe you're right. But it's not democratic at all, is it? In fact, it is the essence of fascism.

I am not going to pursue your straw man down the rabbit hole.

The USA have killed millions in the region. And all of that to please Israel and Saudi Arabia.

more mind reading?

But you're losing the Saudis.

We have more than enough oil if President Biden takes his boot off the neck of the oil industry.

Even when there were clear signs they bankrolled 9/11

True

and proof they killed Kashoggi.

True but Kashoggi was no saint, he was a political activist spewing his criticism of the Saudi Government from an editorial position at a western newspaper.

Those who were instrumental in delivering Kashoggi to the Saudi embassy in Turkey now have companies in Israel, Cyprus and Russia.

we'll have to take your word for it... lots of shady business around the world.

But that doesn't even worry the NSA in the slightest. Turkey was more upset and investigated a lot better than all the US agencies combined. Go figure.

Turkey plays both (more?) sides of the street and as an oil consumer is probably incapable of prolonged sanctions against Saudi oil. In fact they side with OPEC+ against America.

Probably, maybe. He stated he wanted to support the Russian speaking Ukrainians in the Crimea and Ukraine. But even the Russian speaking population has had to flee (except the fascists who joined the Russian military). Just like Netanyahu, Putin needs the fascists to stay in power. If he can't win the war, he'll be dead in a jiffy.

Putin would just be replaced with another similar dictator.

LOL.

Years ago, Palestine was run by the PLO. The PLO was secular. Hamas isn't. Jihad is harder to overcome, since it will unite fanatic Muslims. And not only Arab muslims. There's an awful lot of muslims in Asia, for instance. And they are closely following what's happening. Some are already on their way to Palestine to become martyrs...

Indonesia has roughly 300 million souls and is 87% muslim. Just like the rest of the world only a tiny fraction support radical islam.

And Hamas was democratically elected. Why? Because there wasn't any other fraction that could offer hope. All the other fractions were being sabotaged by Israel. I wonder why Hamas wasn't...

Why would Israel support Hamas..? Sorry that does not hold water.

That's simply not true. There's plenty of money from the Saudis, Qatar and other rich Arab oil nations flowing to Mekka. And from Mekka it can go anywhere in the world, including the USA. Easy buying politicians if you have a nearly unlimited budget.

I know, because I audited several EU aid programs. Sure, some money got lost, but it didn't go to Hamas, or any other splinter group. It went to businesses in the UK, Gibraltar and Malta. I was a bit disappointed whit the results of the audit when it showed only 45% of the money reached the Bekaa farmers. I was later told that was a succes. Usually, it was far less...

Still it was way better than the US effort to stop poppy farmers in Afghanistan. They spent 5 billion, the result was the best harvest ever. Now, explain that to me. Of course, in the same year, Haliburton stole 20 million $ worth of fuel and sold it to unknown buyers in Pakistan. That was quickly covered up. It seemed nobody at the Pentagon wanted to lose face. And, hey, it was only 20 million. Compared to the poppy debacle, that was just a fly fart...

Or the tens of $B worth of US weapons left behind in Afghanistan by President Biden.

Because that would please Israel immensely. They have a habit of bombarding refugee camps in Lebanon and elsewhere. Can you imagine Egypt being very wary about Palestinian refugees when the current govt of Egypt is secular and trying hard to stay away from Jihadi's. The Egyptian govt would effectively be between two fires. Israel on one side, the jihadis on the other side. The same goes for Syria and Iran. Syria is secular, Iran isn't. And who can we thank for Iran's conversion? Yeah, it's the USA. And Gaza would be empty, to be occupied by (zionist) settlers.



Is there anything left to destabilise in Iraq, or Lebanon?



I'm not mind reading at all. I just observe and listen to many sources. Syria and Iran don't want Jihad either, but they are constantly being harassed by Israel and Jihadi groups. If they don't react, the Jihadi's will grow in power. If they do react, they're being harassed by Israel.

And where is the central leadership of the Jihadis? Right, it's in Mekka. Have you noticed Mekka is only in the news during Hadj. This gets royally ignored by the USA (and the UK).

For those having trouble following you are probably talking about Mecca (Makkah al-Mukarramah) the high holy site for Islam.

So it's OK to take Israel's bribes? It wouldn't be OK if it was Russian or Chinese money, would it?

It happens, you know. Ultra right here was bought by Russians (the party leader was a close friend of the Russian ambassador) and later by the Chinese...

Money clearly has no colour. Money isn't communist, even when it comes from the CCP...

I suspect this sounds logical to you?

JR

 

[Tubetec]

Take a look at this Mike ,
https://historicgraves.com/story/ra...nt-work-carr-s-hill-cemetery-cork-aug-22-2023

So yes Mike , we had open pits in the ground , where bodies were brought by horse and cart and dumped down into a hole , sure the famine was before my time , but Carrs hill cemetery now bears impressions and dimples in the soil , not dating back to the 1840's , but modern times , where babies born to single mothers , who where the subject of illegal vaccine testing are buried . Neither the state ,the church nor the pharmaceutical companies involved have been held to account yet.

The Nazi death camps were more than just a place people were brought to die , many many medical experiments were conducted and after the war America made sure it inherited its share of the tech that emerged , Id personally say Fauci's gain of function experiments are simply a continuation of research started by the third Reich , then carried on by the the CIA , now of course such testing is prohibited on US soil , so its contracted out , to China in the case of Covid .
Kind of ironic when covid emerged many Americans were willing to point the finger at China without question .
Im sure it would be a lot more convienient for the US if Fauci simply vanished at this point and let the crooked politicians and pharmaceuticals off the hook . Public awareness of whats been done is a bit like the old genie in a bottle , once its out , you cant get it back in its box .

 

[cyrano]

Take a look at this Mike ,
https://historicgraves.com/story/ra...nt-work-carr-s-hill-cemetery-cork-aug-22-2023

then carried on by the the CIA , now of course such testing is prohibited on US soil , so its contracted out , to China in the case of Covid .

Don't blame the CIA for everything. Remember the Tuskegee experiment?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study

That was carried out by the PHS and the CDC. The fact that hundreds of people were infected with syphilis, resulting in an unknown number of babies born with the disease didn't matter to them because these weren't people, in their minds at the time. That ran 'till 1972. Not exactly the dark ages, is it?

Sadly, it isn't the only example.

 

[cyrano]

It "could" have been easily won if the military was unfettered.

It really is allright to you if you keep the reality from the public. In other words, the ends justify the means.

I've heard that way too much.

more mind reading?

If it wasn't to please the USA's dodgy allies, was it to please the industrial military complex?

It surely wasn't in the name of democracy, since the dictator removed by it, was put in place by the USA to start with. And that goes for more countries in the region than simply Iraq.

We have more than enough oil if President Biden takes his boot off the neck of the oil industry.

Oh, yeah. Let them pollute everything and get rich while doing it...

True but Kashoggi was no saint, he was a political activist spewing his criticism of the Saudi Government from an editorial position at a western newspaper.

Fascism at it's best.

A journalist should criticise. That's what the press should do. It's even the essence of reporting. But, of course, the crimes of the Saudi royals are forgiven. Two standards at work as usual.

we'll have to take your word for it... lots of shady business around the world.

If you are too lazy to read the material I've provided several times, I can't help it. Please, go on dreaming. But don't bother replying to facts that have been known for a while. These facts have been scientifically researched, but you keep on denying them. If it was funny, I could somehow understand. But it isn't funny at all. It shows a deep lack of compassion and understanding.

Turkey plays both (more?) sides of the street and as an oil consumer is probably incapable of prolonged sanctions against Saudi oil. In fact they side with OPEC+ against America.

Any nation who doesn't play to the US fascist playbook is an enemy, right? And that gives the USA the right to kill, torture and displace millions of people. Nice country you have.

Putin would just be replaced with another similar dictator.

Probably. But we don't know that, do we?

There are numerous examples in history where it went another way.

Indonesia has roughly 300 million souls and is 87% muslim. Just like the rest of the world only a tiny fraction support radical islam.

So?

Why would Israel support Hamas..? Sorry that does not hold water.

I didn't say Israel should support it. It's just a reminder that Hamas didn't come out of nowhere. Nor did it come from Iran, or one of the other scapegoats.

Or the tens of $B worth of US weapons left behind in Afghanistan by President Biden.

That hasn't got anything to do with the discussion at hand. Besides, it was Trump who decide to leave Afghanistan, IIRC.

Now, you'll probably retaliate with the dream that Trump would do a far better job. Unfortunately, his track record doesn't show any job decently carried out. You still don't seem to understand that the only thing he accomplished, is turning US' democracy into the laughing stock of the world.

For those having trouble following you are probably talking about Mecca (Makkah al-Mukarramah) the high holy site for Islam.

You seem the only one who has a hard time following reality. It isn't because US English spells Mekka with a c that people wouldn't understand the message. In fact, you're the only one who doesn't want to understand it cause it doesn't rhyme with your programming. I'm glad others seem to understand it.

I suspect this sounds logical to you?

Well, it's quite clear you don't. You have lamented endlessly about the democrats accepting Russian money, but keep awfully silent when it's about the other side. So, let's put that in simple words:

It should be illegal in any democratic country to finance political efforts with any money from any side that is meant to compromise the democratic election process. That includes other countries.

It's clearly not like that in the USA. In fact, there isn't a country on earth that meddles more in other countries than the USA. And the result is seldom good.

Other countries, who are more democratic, have laws in place to avoid that. The USA has literally invented and institutionalised lobbying and there are rules. But those rules are so simple to circumvent, it is laughable. A fact you clearly don't accept, if it's about your own tribe, but lament on endlessly, again, if it's the other tribe...

Maybe that's why nobody minds US education being so underwhelming?

 

[JohnRoberts]

It really is allright to you if you keep the reality from the public. In other words, the ends justify the means.

I've heard that way too much.



If it wasn't to please the USA's dodgy allies, was it to please the industrial military complex?

It surely wasn't in the name of democracy, since the dictator removed by it, was put in place by the USA to start with. And that goes for more countries in the region than simply Iraq.



Oh, yeah. Let them pollute everything and get rich while doing it...



Fascism at it's best.

A journalist should criticise. That's what the press should do. It's even the essence of reporting. But, of course, the crimes of the Saudi royals are forgiven. Two standards at work as usual.



If you are too lazy to read the material I've provided several times, I can't help it. Please, go on dreaming. But don't bother replying to facts that have been known for a while. These facts have been scientifically researched, but you keep on denying them. If it was funny, I could somehow understand. But it isn't funny at all. It shows a deep lack of compassion and understanding.



Any nation who doesn't play to the US fascist playbook is an enemy, right? And that gives the USA the right to kill, torture and displace millions of people. Nice country you have.



Probably. But we don't know that, do we?

There are numerous examples in history where it went another way.



So?



I didn't say Israel should support it. It's just a reminder that Hamas didn't come out of nowhere. Nor did it come from Iran, or one of the other scapegoats.



That hasn't got anything to do with the discussion at hand. Besides, it was Trump who decide to leave Afghanistan, IIRC.

Now, you'll probably retaliate with the dream that Trump would do a far better job. Unfortunately, his track record doesn't show any job decently carried out. You still don't seem to understand that the only thing he accomplished, is turning US' democracy into the laughing stock of the world.



You seem the only one who has a hard time following reality. It isn't because US English spells Mekka with a c that people wouldn't understand the message. In fact, you're the only one who doesn't want to understand it cause it doesn't rhyme with your programming. I'm glad others seem to understand it.



Well, it's quite clear you don't. You have lamented endlessly about the democrats accepting Russian money, but keep awfully silent when it's about the other side. So, let's put that in simple words:

It should be illegal in any democratic country to finance political efforts with any money from any side that is meant to compromise the democratic election process. That includes other countries.

It's clearly not like that in the USA. In fact, there isn't a country on earth that meddles more in other countries than the USA. And the result is seldom good.

Other countries, who are more democratic, have laws in place to avoid that. The USA has literally invented and institutionalised lobbying and there are rules. But those rules are so simple to circumvent, it is laughable. A fact you clearly don't accept, if it's about your own tribe, but lament on endlessly, again, if it's the other tribe...

Maybe that's why nobody minds US education being so underwhelming?

you sure like to argue.

JR

 

[jabe]

We have more than enough oil if President Biden takes his boot off the neck of the oil industry.

US leads global oil production for sixth straight year

I will likely regret this waste of time, I already do...


It "could" have been easily won if the military was unfettered.

Some classic advice from Sun Tzu's "The art of War" is to not allow politicians to be involved in prosecuting wars. With politicians responsive to public opinion they get whipsawed by each news cycle. Sadly this is better than the alternative.

My opposition to the Viet Nam war was simple self interest, and in fact I did get drafted, so my concern was real.

I am not going to pursue your straw man down the rabbit hole.

more mind reading?

We have more than enough oil if President Biden takes his boot off the neck of the oil industry.

True

True but Kashoggi was no saint, he was a political activist spewing his criticism of the Saudi Government from an editorial position at a western newspaper.

we'll have to take your word for it... lots of shady business around the world.

Turkey plays both (more?) sides of the street and as an oil consumer is probably incapable of prolonged sanctions against Saudi oil. In fact they side with OPEC+ against America.

Putin would just be replaced with another similar dictator.

Indonesia has roughly 300 million souls and is 87% muslim. Just like the rest of the world only a tiny fraction support radical islam.

Why would Israel support Hamas..? Sorry that does not hold water.

Or the tens of $B worth of US weapons left behind in Afghanistan by President Biden.

For those having trouble following you are probably talking about Mecca (Makkah al-Mukarramah) the high holy site for Islam.

I suspect this sounds logical to you?

JR

you sure like to argue.

 

[cyrano]

you sure like to argue.

JR

Yes, John. I'm mad. In both senses of the word.

I'm very angry about what Israeli fascists are doing to the people of Gaza. That includes being angry about US support of the genocide.

And I'm insane cause I still think I can educate some... Even people who refuse to look at the evidence. Like YouTube, who is eating MSM's lunch.

But if you don't like arguing, why bother replying?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes, John. I'm mad. In both senses of the word.

I'm very angry about what Israeli fascists are doing to the people of Gaza. That includes being angry about US support of the genocide.

Genocide is the intentional destruction of a people[a] in whole or in part.

In 1948, the United Nations Genocide Convention defined genocide as any of five "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly.[1][2]

The Political Instability Task Force estimated that 43 genocides occurred between 1956 and 2016, resulting in about 50 million deaths.[3] The UNHCR estimated that a further 50 million had been displaced by such episodes of violence up to 2008.[3] Genocide, especially large-scale genocide, is widely considered to signify the epitome of human evil.[4] Genocide has been referred to as the "crime of crimes".[5][6][7]

The only attempt to erase an ethnic, racial, or religious group in the region is Hamas' attack on innocent Israelis. The Israelis have a history of actual genocide, being attacked because of their religion.

The Holocaust was the genocide of European Jews during World War II.Between 1941 and 1945, Nazi Germany and its collaborators systematically murdered some six million Jews across German-occupied Europe, around two-thirds of Europe's Jewish population.

And I'm insane cause I still think I can educate some...

Some of your "education" seems more like ideological propaganda. Perhaps try to calm down and not react emotionally.

Even people who refuse to look at the evidence. Like YouTube, who is eating MSM's lunch.

I avoid that kind of "evidence" but it is apparently pretty persuasive with some. As generative AI technology gets more advanced I expect even more fake smoking gun evidence.

But if you don't like arguing, why bother replying?

Because I dislike misinformation. I have difficulty leaving it unchallenged.

JR

PS: I concede that I have some bias from my life experience.

 

[cyrano]

You really can't help yourself, can you?

That leaves it to me stop replying to your indoctrinated nonsense...

Bye!