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ioaudio

Well-known member
Joined
May 11, 2005
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Location
vienna/austria
is it possible to summarise all couses for hum in a mic pre?
can a circuit itself tend to hum despite the usual suspects transformer, supply filtering and grounding?
 
[quote author="ioaudio"]add on: curently i fight with a strange hum-problem: it only appears after a signal peak for about a second...[/quote]

In somewhat greater detail:

The momentary overload associated with what may well be oscillation per Jakob, may be causing a regulator to drop out, or it may be that either the overload, or the oscillation-induced d.c. shift internally, is causing a circuit which otherwise has good power supply rejection to lose it for a moment.

Such events are often harbingers of imminent doom in power amps! :shock:
 
> is it possible to summarise all causes for hum in a mic pre?

No.

You might review Ch 18 and Ch 31 of Radiotron. This is incomplete, and completely neglects the odd things that transistors can do.

> it only appears after a signal peak for about a second...

An audio engineer needs a fast voltmeter. NOT a slow too-precise hard-to-read digital meter, but an old fashioned needle-meter. Watch the power rail and various key points inside the amplifier while you slam signal through it. Presumably the DC voltage should not shift with audio; a fast DC meter will tell you if it does. (And if the real cause is hypersonic oscillations, hanging a meter on various points is liable to supress, or at least change, the oscillation, giving you a clue.)

Lacking a good DC needle-meter, you can use the lazy man's tool: the oscilloscope. Comparing what happens, DC and audio, when just-below and just-above the signal level that causes odd effects can lead to a clue.

As bcarso says: the input to a regulator has to be several volts more than its output at ALL times. If a heavy peak causes the raw voltage to sag, the regulator stops regulating and also stops filtering the buzz off the raw voltage.
 
thank you all.
most likely i´ve got oscillation in my circuit-my ht psu is unregulated. dc shifts for maybe 3 volts while peaking.
the psu is connected externally, maybe oscillation evolves from the long power chord between the unit and the psu?
 
the circuit is similar to this one (i´ve been working on for some time...)

http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/albums/userpics/10055/ioaudiomic_1.jpg

but the output tube is now ecc 83, and there´s a 100k in series with the 100k pot.

edit: yes, trying various bypass caps, no change...
 
Shouldn't Grid3 (EF86 pin8) go to the Cathode (EF86 pin3) in stead of to the anode?

Also, when using ECC83 as SRPP output stage, you may want to make both cathode resistors larger - e.g. 2K2 for both in stead of 1K5/470R.

Note, that ECC83 has poor output drive capability (higher output impedance) compared to ECC81 - you may need to use a higher output transformer winding ratio - a guess is between 4:1 and 8:1 if you want to be able to drive anything lower than some 2KOhm impedance..

Jakob E.
 
ef86 is in fact wired like jacob describes it: it´s wrong in the schematics. (this way it is wired in triode mode)
i will try changing the 1,5 k to 2.2 k
didnt try loading the output less then 10 k yet...
 
[quote author="ioaudio"] e
i will try changing the 1,5 k to 2.2 k
[/quote]

I'd suggest you change the 470R to 2K2 as well.

If you search the back issues of "Glass Audio", you'll fine a great article on dimensioning SRPP circuits..

Jakob E.
 
thanks jacob, i will read it. changed the 470 as well, forgot to mention it.
which output stages are capable of driving a 2:1 output transformer except the SRPP and the WCF ?
 
> the circuit is similar to ...

It does not seem right for the two cathode resistors in the output stage to be so different: 100Ω and 1,500Ω. In general, the mid-point should sit about half-way between B+ and ground. I estimate this plan's midpoint sits around 40V.

> ...but the output tube is now ecc 83, .... which output stages are capable of driving a 2:1 output transformer except the SRPP and the WCF?

Reality check. 2:1 into 600Ω is 2,400Ω at the tube. ECC81/12AT7 has internal resistance of ~10K; ECC83/12AX7 has internal resistance of ~60K. Neither is a good choice for a 2K4 load.

Topology can help make the most of what you have, but no matter how you harness two mice they won't pull your wagon.

Take the 'AT7. The very best the two tubes can do is for one side to turn full off and the other side to turn full on. Fully on, 12AT7 acts a little like a 10K resistor. Assuming B+ is 250V and the tubes idle at half of that, or 125V. Then 125V feeding a 10K tube and a 2K4 load in series can only pull-up or pull-down 125V*(2K4/(10K+2K4))= 125V*0.19= 24V peak. After the 2:1 transformer, only 12V peak, 8.5V RMS. This is +20dBm, but also gross clipping; usable output may be a lot less. I think THD will be large at the customary +18dBm rating of simple mike preamps. Voltage gain is about 15 to the primary, 7.5 to the load. This is low for a tube with Mu=60. It will be straining.

With the 12AX7 it is even worse. And you usually use the 'AX7 for gain, but with such a low load impedance, gain will be poor. Maybe as low as unity.

As a wild-hit guess, find a tube with Rp about 2K or 3K. That will be a not-bad match for ~2K4 load. In the 12A?7 series, 12AU7 is 6K, so you could use two bottles. NYDave has such a plan somewhere except using one of the 12AU7's bigger brothers (12BH7?). 6DJ8 is actually a capable driver at this level, except it wasn't really built to run high current and heat in normal operation, and life at ~125V ~10mA may be short.

I think SRPP sucks. I am out of step with modern fashion, I know. However when it does work well, I think equal results could be had with one triode, and superior results with the two triodes in GC-GP configuration. If you need some gain and must drive LOW impedance loads well, a volt-amp plus a WCF will shame any SRPP, at the cost of one more triode. (And you may find a pentode-triode to replace that '86.)
 
thanks a lot for your time&explanations!

i read two similar articles where the authors share your opinion about the srpp circuit.
today i got a ecc82 , will try that in my output stage-it will be the same output stage like in jacobs g9.
 
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