berkleystudios
Well-known member
what are some of the best ways / techniques yall have found?
I want to get into self etching....
- Thread starter berkleystudios
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
mrphotodude
Well-known member
http://blog.makezine.com/projects/pcb-etching-using-toner-transfer-method/
That is similar to the method i use. Its kinda messy and you have to be a little patient with ironing on a sheet onto copper clad. Not the most high quality way of doing it, but it can be effective. There are places that will make board for you cheap around, along with some people on the forum. I like the boards with the silkscreen printing on top and the through hole eyelets. But i have made a handful of kitchen self etched pcb's just to get started.
That is similar to the method i use. Its kinda messy and you have to be a little patient with ironing on a sheet onto copper clad. Not the most high quality way of doing it, but it can be effective. There are places that will make board for you cheap around, along with some people on the forum. I like the boards with the silkscreen printing on top and the through hole eyelets. But i have made a handful of kitchen self etched pcb's just to get started.
gemini86
Well-known member
In my experience, photo etching gives the most consistent results. Print onto a clear projector sheet and lay that onto the pre-coated copper clad with a piece of glass on top to keep it flat. Use a full spectrum light to expose, it takes longer than a pure UV lamp, but it's cheaper. Develop the photo resist and then etch. I usually fit all I can onto one board and do a bunch of stuff at once and cut them out after.
usekgb
Well-known member
One t hong that helps is two print two transparencies, and lay them on top of each other hen you expose the copper to light. A single sheet tends to bleed through a bit. Also, direct sunlight works to expose the copper just fine. Relax, don't get too caught up on details, and have fun!
The best technique I've found is to pay a prototype service.
This is an old story for me, and back in the day at one of my early technician jobs, we did our share of DIY etching since that was the only practical way to get one-off PCB. We used ferric chloride, and even heated it on a hot plate to etch the PCB faster. Until one day when the container full of etchant broke, and the ferric chloride hit the heating element and turned into very nasty steam. The drill press and all the exposed metal in that room instantly turned to rust. Glad no one was in the room when that sh__ hit the fan (heat).
It seems like nasty chemicals to mess with around the house and feed into your local sewer system.
By the mid '70s I was making prototype boards at my local PCB board house for my business.
JR
This is an old story for me, and back in the day at one of my early technician jobs, we did our share of DIY etching since that was the only practical way to get one-off PCB. We used ferric chloride, and even heated it on a hot plate to etch the PCB faster. Until one day when the container full of etchant broke, and the ferric chloride hit the heating element and turned into very nasty steam. The drill press and all the exposed metal in that room instantly turned to rust. Glad no one was in the room when that sh__ hit the fan (heat).
It seems like nasty chemicals to mess with around the house and feed into your local sewer system.
By the mid '70s I was making prototype boards at my local PCB board house for my business.
JR
Some infos here as well, when i wanted to start etching my own. http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=42907.0
I use Sodium Persulfat, wich is a little less nasty than ferrite chloride, and i think the results are as good, maybe even better for tiny lines,
even if most companys use ferrite. It's clear when new, turns blue when used, it will still be corrosive, and would make holes into your clothes etc...
I still use the setup once in a while, took some time to put it all together, but works well, the wood dissipators are always left in a little bit of water to make them last as much as possible, but depending on what you want to do, you could still achieve good results with the stater kits that you can find on electronic stores....
I made a double aquarium with the advices of livingnote, but only one was sufficient actually.
I use Sodium Persulfat, wich is a little less nasty than ferrite chloride, and i think the results are as good, maybe even better for tiny lines,
even if most companys use ferrite. It's clear when new, turns blue when used, it will still be corrosive, and would make holes into your clothes etc...
I still use the setup once in a while, took some time to put it all together, but works well, the wood dissipators are always left in a little bit of water to make them last as much as possible, but depending on what you want to do, you could still achieve good results with the stater kits that you can find on electronic stores....
I made a double aquarium with the advices of livingnote, but only one was sufficient actually.
dirtyhanfri
Well-known member
I do my own pcbs with UV exposition method, quite cheap and give reasonably good results for the cost.
I built my own UV box, and use everyday products to reveal and develop the boards; just being a bit careful makes it possible. I just need to add some kind of air pump for the developing process
I built my own UV box, and use everyday products to reveal and develop the boards; just being a bit careful makes it possible. I just need to add some kind of air pump for the developing process
mrphotodude
Well-known member
Ferric chloride will stain porcelain pretty bad, I use muriatic acid from hardware store and hydrogen peroxide and it works well.
I use the toner transfer method with Pulsar Pro FX paper and GreenTRF film. Normal glossy paper doesn't work so well for pcbs involving ground planes or thick traces.
I use a cheap t-shirt heat press to transfer the toner onto the boards, and then etch with cupric chloride--this can be regenerated, so I don't have to worry much about disposal. I use a small aquarium pump to get some bubbles in the solution. I don't worry about heating the solution. It goes slowly when it's cold out (and, since I'm in Minnesota, it's quite cold for half the year), but the results are fine so long as I'm patient.
I like to etch the board myself if it's a first attempt at the layout, as it's relatively quick, extremely cheap (once you've got the setup), and not so embarrassing as getting useless boards back from the PCB house
. And, if I'm making a guitar pedal for a friend or something similarly small and cheap, it makes more sense to just do it myself.
I use a cheap t-shirt heat press to transfer the toner onto the boards, and then etch with cupric chloride--this can be regenerated, so I don't have to worry much about disposal. I use a small aquarium pump to get some bubbles in the solution. I don't worry about heating the solution. It goes slowly when it's cold out (and, since I'm in Minnesota, it's quite cold for half the year), but the results are fine so long as I'm patient.
I like to etch the board myself if it's a first attempt at the layout, as it's relatively quick, extremely cheap (once you've got the setup), and not so embarrassing as getting useless boards back from the PCB house
. And, if I'm making a guitar pedal for a friend or something similarly small and cheap, it makes more sense to just do it myself.
berkleystudios
Well-known member
how important is it to have ink get a laser jet printer for this? with a normal printer not cut it?
as for the chemicals, which type can be reused a handful of times? not a big issue just trying to figure out the cost of things
as for the chemicals, which type can be reused a handful of times? not a big issue just trying to figure out the cost of things
Timothytitus88
Well-known member
Hey,
There is lots of info about self etching around here.
Have a look here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=47954.msg604721#msg604721
However, a quick summary:
Cheers,
Tim
There is lots of info about self etching around here.
Have a look here: http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=47954.msg604721#msg604721
However, a quick summary:
- The sensitized boards are great. I have had much much more consistent results than the iron on transfer method.
- Make your own light box using chipboard a piece of glass and a couple of compact florescent UV globes from the hardware store. Line the box with tinfoil, and make it deep so the light diffuses and evenly exposes the board.
- Normal transparencies are no good (although doubling them helps) the matt transfer paper is needs only one print and is nice and dark
- Crack a beer and agitate your etching solution on a Sunday afternoon. Enjoyable way to spend a few hours and you do not need a bubbly tank
Cheers,
Tim
berkleystudios said:
For the toner transfer method, you need a laser printer. I use an HP laserjet 1200. Inkjet printers won't work.
If you etch with cupric chloride, like http://www.instructables.com/id/Stop-using-Ferric-Chloride-etchant!--A-better-etc/, you can reuse it indefinitely.
mrphotodude
Well-known member
inkjet printers will put out a liquid ink that absorbes into paper, laser jet prints a sort of toner that fuses to the paper. When you do the iron on method you use inkjet glossy paper in a laserjet printer to lay a layer of "plastic" onto the top of the paper then you use an iron to melt it onto a copper clad board. If your paper moves, you have to do it over again. If you don't have enough heat and press hard enough, the toner can fall off or tear. I found a very hot iron in a thrift store i was using. I preheat the board with a heat gun, slap the paper on the clad then use that super hot iron with a bit of elbo grease to get it transferred. It took a few tries to get it right. Its one of the most "homemade" ways to do it but its not as good as the uv sensitive boards with a transparency. There are also "rub off" traces out there on a piece of paper, kinda like the lettering for windows. I never had much luck with that though. If you don't have a laserjet printer yourself, i would find someone that does and try that out before investing money into it if you do decide to try this method.
THere are alot of blogs and howto's online for this method if you search around.
Good luck whatever you try.
THere are alot of blogs and howto's online for this method if you search around.
Good luck whatever you try.
I've made my board for a long time... Some 2520 like discrete opamps without trouble... a board for a 990 that I didn't get it run yet but seems to be nice. Toner transfer with photo paper. You could make a copy if you don't have the laser printer. It takes patience to get out all the paper, quality would be as good as you want and have patience for iron, taking out paper and retry if necesary. At first could be very frustrating but it get's better. The problem is when you need a lot of boards, using transparencies to use instead of photo paper would be an option because you dont have to wait the water to hit the paper after iron, just to get cold... and if you have to re-try you just need to clean the board, 4' for each try instead of 15' but ironing is a bit harder.
I'm going to try silk-screen process with a friend who makes T-shirts and such for greater quantity of self etched boards.
Don't give it a try, give it at least 3 or 4! It worth it, when I was in training I made protos in PCB instead of protoboard and etch 2 or 3 times in a night. It also gives you nice PCB design training.
JS
I'm going to try silk-screen process with a friend who makes T-shirts and such for greater quantity of self etched boards.
Don't give it a try, give it at least 3 or 4! It worth it, when I was in training I made protos in PCB instead of protoboard and etch 2 or 3 times in a night. It also gives you nice PCB design training.
JS
