Im quietly fuming all day

[madswitcher]

John,

I think the moderators  are dodging the issue here: Tubtec asked a reasonable question as to why the "Trump, Trump, Trump" thread was deleted and as far as I can see, he has not received an adequate plain answer as to what was violated in the rule book.

OK, the thread had got out of hand and freezing it was probably overdue, but the thread, in itself, was a snapshop of opinions being expressed, some getting out of line and being jumped on.  Freezing it and letting slide into oblivion would have been more courteous to all parties.

Regards

Mike

 

[boji]

The sticky truth is GDIY, due to its primary utility, has an implied baseline competency requirement.
But it also makes it an island paradise for those blessed with intelligence (when comparing it to the internet seas). The trick for the borderline IQ folks is to sneak in, shut up and listen.

In the brewery, I get to let my middling IQ hang all out, and that's due to the bouncers being nice.  Thanks bouncers.  8)

I've seen exactly this in an International school we used to bring my brother for soccer , the parents were shouting Hitler style from the side lines and the kids ended up totally demoralised ,even scuffles and screaming matches started between the parents ,crazy stuff altogether

OMG that is some scary stuff, as all those parents are basically teaching their kids the range of what is permissible when manipulating people.

There are limits to everything imo, even free speech.

I find this to be a very dangerous idea as one must be able to venture into the unknown. Any unknown imaginable. What one comes back with is a different story altogether. Of course we try to be virtuous and follow cultural norms in the process of speech. However I'd fight tooth and nail against any language that tries to codify restrictions on free speech that is not intentionally malicious (Yelling 'Fire!' in a crowded room for example).

I'll never be as cool as Abby, I have to edit sometimes.   Edit: In case that last point was not clear, yelling fire in a crowded room is malicious, and falls outside my definition of permissible free speech.

Also I get that knowledge and IQ are two different things but they tend to correlate across time.

 

[JohnRoberts]

John,

I think the moderators  are dodging the issue here: Tubtec asked a reasonable question as to why the "Trump, Trump, Trump" thread was deleted and as far as I can see, he has not received an adequate plain answer as to what was violated in the rule book.

I carried out some trash and that thread was full of trash.  Moderator don't play dodge ball (at least not this century).

OK, the thread had got out of hand and freezing it was probably overdue, but the thread, in itself, was a snapshop of opinions being expressed, some getting out of line and being jumped on.  Freezing it and letting slide into oblivion would have been more courteous to all parties.

Regards

Mike

I see no way that I can personally benefit from debating this  : but in the interest of openness, I saw no value in preserving documentation of old opinions, with plenty of ugliness mixed in. 

This sub forum has turned into a blog with "here's what is bothering me today"... with several catch all threads for the rant du jour.


JR

 

[desol]

I find this to be a very dangerous idea as one must be able to venture into the unknown.

It's only a very dangerous idealistically, but not in reality. There's rules to everything. Take the rules of this forum for instance:

"You will find that the members of this community are incredibly courteous and respectful of each other, so please reciprocate those gestures. Leave the Flame-war mentality at another forum.  Personal attacks as well as general hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated."

This is a perfectly reasonable example of a limitation to free speech, otherwise I would be able to say anything I wanted, to whomever I wanted. Case in point.

Extreme free-speech idealism is a flawed idea, and quite obviously not the case at all in reality. There's rules to everything other than anarchy.

Extreme ideas are always flawed, either way.

 

[emrr]

It is, after all, a curated space, as is any place with moderators.  Those moderators surely weed through a lot of 'moderation reports' from users, I know I do at another at which I moderate. 

 

[ruffrecords]

I don't understand the emphasis on rules limiting freedoms.  With every right comes the responsibility not to use it to infringe the rights of others. In the case of free speech there is a responsibility not to infringe  the right of others to be treated courteously. I guess the rules are there for those who do not realise this.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Gene Pink]

I carried out some trash and that thread was full of trash.  Moderator don't play dodge ball (at least not this century). I see no way that I can personally benefit from debating this  : but in the interest of openness, I saw no value in preserving documentation of old opinions, with plenty of ugliness mixed in. 

JR, I know how much you hate people putting words in your mouth, but I'm gonna take a shot at it anyway, correct me if I am wrong.

The main ideology of a board like this, is to disseminate information to whoever seeks it, it is a rich reference of everything electronicable. Someone gets on here and wants to know about a '78 Widget-3000 compdelayverb, there will probably be a thread on here from 2006, somewhere, all about it. This board is a vast archive, that is saved in perpetuity for all.

Who the hell in the future, is gonna search, let alone find anything useful in any of these political rant threads? Only someone looking for dirt on another member, near as I can figure.

JR, being a pragmatic fellow, has simply decided that mass deletion of these threads of nothing but nonsense, that would never be searched and shouldn't be searched, should just go away.

Plus, it frees up server space for my Brewery anti-politics Easy Cheese posts. 

Gene

PS: Did Tands get Mathias'd? Tands was posting in his own words lately, (for what they were worth) and I find that much less annoying. No comment on the content, as ad-harmonica, ad harmonium, ad harmony, ad hominy grits, whatever, attacks are not allowed here. 

 

[boji]

The ad-harmonica: You suck too hard on the low note, bend the reed and put it permanently out of tune.

 

[JohnRoberts]

JR, I know how much you hate people putting words in your mouth, but I'm gonna take a shot at it anyway, correct me if I am wrong.

Yes I do, and yes I will...

The main ideology of a board like this, is to disseminate information to whoever seeks it, it is a rich reference of everything electronicable. Someone gets on here and wants to know about a '78 Widget-3000 compdelayverb, there will probably be a thread on here from 2006, somewhere, all about it. This board is a vast archive, that is saved in perpetuity for all.

Mostly.... Pretty much everybody who enjoyed success designing electronics, has been mentored by sundry people at different times. I take pride in being a mostly self taught college drop out, but I still had mentors, starting with older brothers, and a handful of different senior engineers.  This forum gives us an opportunity to give some back.

Who the hell in the future, is gonna search, let alone find anything useful in any of these political rant threads? Only someone looking for dirt on another member, near as I can figure.

ding ding ding... give that man a cigar.

JR, being a pragmatic fellow, has simply decided that mass deletion of these threads of nothing but nonsense, that would never be searched and shouldn't be searched, should just go away.

I wouldn't mind if brewery posts just disappeared automatically after a few weeks.  This sub forum is more of "what's bothering me today" than anything of historic significance. While there are occasional pearls found here.

Plus, it frees up server space for my Brewery anti-politics Easy Cheese posts. 

Gene

PS: Did Tands get Mathias'd?

As far as I know Mattias (?)  left under his own volition.  If his account was deleted, I didn't do it and don't recall hearing about any such action from the other moderators.  I recall similar questions being asked when he dropped out, and I even linked to his still valid forum account showing no activity back then. (I can't find his old account now.)

Tands was posting in his own words lately, (for what they were worth) and I find that much less annoying. No comment on the content, as ad-harmonica, ad harmonium, ad harmony, ad hominy grits, whatever, attacks are not allowed here. 

I stopped intentionally reading his posts some time ago and the few I saw by accident, even in his own words were not worth reading or responding to despite his troll like attempts to get engagement. My decision was made after receiving multiple moderation reports complaining about him.  I wrestled with this decision for months. I bent over backwards to be fair, even defending him publicly on the forum several times in the past and giving him too many warnings to count.

You may recall that I deleted the thread that you started (just to complain about him). Not very nice... bad Pink.  :

The stream of personal PMs and moderation complaints did not stop and I worried that he was chasing off more constructive members who contribute the real value around here.  Members like that don't always complain, more often they just quietly slip away, like the many great members we have lost over the years. There is only a handful of members around who patiently help and answer every newbie asking inexperienced questions.  In an ideal world new members will grow in knowledge and wisdom over time to be able to help other newbies like they once were, to pay it forward.

This delicate ecosystem is worth preserving and if we have to pull one weed every now and then to help the flowers prosper, so be it. This is not a democracy, it is Ethan's show and he chooses to keep the rules finite and simple. https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=6650.0

JR

 

[DaveP]

JR, being a pragmatic fellow, has simply decided that mass deletion of these threads of nothing but nonsense, that would never be searched and shouldn't be searched, should just go away.

Yes, this hits the nail on the head.

The brewery is helpful for getting things off your chest and learning about other peoples ideas and the way they see things.  Once these exchanges have taken place, they form opinions in your mind (or not) and thereafter the actual text can be dumped.

I totally agree that this forum is about DIY audio electronics, I just don't think it's right for people to invade the Brewery for political ends when they contribute nothing to the other electronic threads.

Personally, I think that the days of FB and Twitter are numbered.  They are just a fad and the rot has set in with peoples data being sold and their susceptibility to fake news.  I think that FB will just become the preserve of women, they are much more into social interaction than men.

DaveP

 

[emrr]

Thanks JR

 

[iampoor1]

The stream of personal PMs and moderation complaints did not stop and I worried that he was chasing off more constructive members who contribute the real value around here.  Members like that don't always complain, more often they just quietly slip away, like the many great members we have lost over the years. There is only a handful of members around who patiently help and answer every newbie asking inexperienced questions.  In an ideal world new members will grow in knowledge and wisdom over time to be able to help other newbies like they once were, to pay it forward.

This delicate ecosystem is worth preserving and if we have to pull one weed every now and then to help the flowers prosper, so be it. This is not a democracy, it is Ethan's show and he chooses to keep the rules finite and simple. https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=6650.0

JR

+1

Im not an important member, but the toxic environment created in brewery political threads by a few certain members that seemed to have very little interest in audio drove me away from visiting as often.  I think this is one of the few places where Tands behavior would be tolerated, hence why he went on for months, and months, and months. This forum is not a political discussion forum, and the fact that we are able to freely and openly speak about controversial issues here is a privilege, not a right. I look forward to the hopefully less toxic environment in the brewery, as interesting threads appear here quite often!

 

[ungifted]

Sorry again, but what was the real(!) reason to delete the thread?
To save disk space? If it's so it's really not good thing for forum to be located on such a poor hosting. Really. IT specialists will agree, I suppose...
I remember some issues and discussion: some members, stolen design ideas, unusual behavior etc etc a lot of skeletons we all know (being a member from 2012 and a reader of the forum from 2008).
You wanna moderate the forum hardly? Why not to react at personal attack banning at once? Why not to close offtopic faster, ban faster?  Why simply not to close the topic and save it as a negative example of behavior?
And with all the negative in the deleted thread, I support topicstarter position: It was sharp discussion showing what do people think (on the both sides of the pool btw).
It's hard to be a god.

 

[boji]

Why not to react at personal attack banning at once? Why not to close offtopic faster, ban faster? 

Because the older and wiser you get the more you learn to be tempered in thought and action, for starters.

If I made a royal arse of myself, I'd want a 2nd chance.

Edit: but you can bet if the tone of threads we've seen as of late became the norm, you'd see a leap in enforcement.

 

[Tubetec]

That Tands is gone ,I think theres a noticably better spirit in the contentious  threads ,people seem to have become less defencive and there generally seems to be a better tone ,at the sametime were handling hot potatoes in here ,were not all going to agree ever .I just hope the missionary christian spirit isnt going to start to seep into everything we do now on top of everything else 

I also think the removal of the threads on the grounds of server space is a nonsense.

While at the time what ever issues arose locking threads worked great ,I dont really see any justification  for permanent removal of entire thread(s). I did notice  some of the more vocal supporters on the 'shut down all political debate and decent ' side  were also  the most scholarly with their bibles studies. I also disagree strongly that the entire content of the wiped posts was garbage and I think there was a strong element of bias in the decision to remove them and in people who refered to the posts as that.

I suppose in some ways as we get to know each other better  we get to know how to not step on each others toes too ,fingers crossed and say our prayers  :

Tands was given more than fair warning by Johns account , and really the beligerance continued unabated ,he did at least make one effort to pull up his socks before he left by posting a bit more in his own words ,but machine gunning down posts with reams and reams of copy and paste dross and then the only time he comes out of his corner he's picking a fight  ,maybe by the time he's had a good long think about his behaviour he'll have learned something for our trouble at least 

 

[Banzai]

Trump supporter deletes thread about Trump, after deeming it disposable and of no value...

Great  :

The brewery is helpful for getting things off your chest and learning about other peoples ideas and the way they see things.  Once these exchanges have taken place, they form opinions in your mind (or not) and thereafter the actual text can be dumped.

No. That's not how the internet works:

Why would anyone put any effort into posting anything, if they're just going to disappear or be deleted?

Personally, I think that the days of FB and Twitter are numbered.  They are just a fad and the rot has set in with peoples data being sold and their susceptibility to fake news.  I think that FB will just become the preserve of women, they are much more into social interaction than men.

... and thank you for the weirdest comment in this thread.

 

[boji]

I think that FB will just become the preserve of women, they are much more into social interaction than men.

... and thank you for the weirdest comment in this thread.

Not that weird:  https://www.statista.com/statistics/653014/frequency-usage-facebook-usa-gender/

Also, guess which sex predominantly uses youtube?

 

[Banzai]

I see more men check 'a few times a week', and only 6% more men say 'never'. Nothing to call a gender trend.

Here's the actual gender distribution:
https://www.statista.com/statistics/266879/facebook-users-in-the-us-by-gender/

52 to 48%... No signs yet of being abandoned by males.

(Some of the chattiest and outgoing people I know are (straight) men – difference in social interaction levels more related to their nature, not gender)

 

[dirtyhanfri]

About gender usage of social media...

Maybe women spend more time or make more posts than men, but I don’t think Facebook will be left by men while there are women posting selfies there...

Sad, but we’ve turned one of the best communication ways we ever developed into a dating system basically.

Scares me how people shows themselves like in a catalogue while living sh*ty lifes most of them...

Sorry for the off topic. Just a thought with my first coffee.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

Sorry for the off topic. Just a thought with my first coffee.

No problem, that's what the Brewery is for, and a little OT provides food for thought.