Incandescent lamps

[sodderboy]

More fun from the junta! What is interesting is all the exemptions, ie. miniature indicator lamps(which have been dying anyway for 20 years now), architectural design lighting, HV lighting.
I personally prefer LED lighting, ambient, overhead at the bench and inside an 1176LN. I lost a lot of billable hours retrofitting LED for all the equipment lamps in my sphere.
Congress originally banned incandescents on a timetable with the "Energy Independence and Security Act of 2007" (howz THAT working?) but they did not have a real alternative then.

It's like RoHS banning lead, except for all the brass used everywhere in electronics. Like EVERYWHERE!
Supposedly the manufacturers of lighting have to make products that give more energy per watt based on production costs.
If this "energy efficiency" metric were applied to green garbage like solar cells, batteries, and wind, the whole industry would cease operations immediately. Get rid of the two-sided subsidies, devastating, destructive, polluting mining and production in "other countries' back yards" and green is a complete bust. Green is truly the new Red.

1. Stock-up on those 100 watters for the test bench!
2. Test any LED lighting in your lives with a de-tuned from a station analog AM radio (got one?). You will be vewwy surprised at the EMF radiation to which you and your loved ones are exposed. Bed-side readers especially! Re-position and go back to in-can where you can. I still like the 12 VDC halogens for reading.
3. Definitely check any head lamps you are using, strapped right on your brain.
4. Toss any CFL products (responsibly). They were mercury poisoning garbage from the start.

Mike

 

[JohnRoberts]

I use a CFL UVc lamp because AFAIK there are no commercial UVc LEDs (yet, while some lying vendors claim to make/sell them).

There are two UVc CFL lamps, one that makes ozone, and another that doesn't (it's a wavelength thing). I use the lamp that makes ozone to disinfect my beer making apparatus. The non-ozone UVc lamp sits inside my air ducting to kill bad stuff in my air. When I tried to use the ozone making lamp inside my air duct, the ozone became irritating.

I am still waiting for cost effective far UVc (really short wavelength UV light). These could disinfect spaces while humans are still using them. Hopefully they will get this figured out before the next pandemic hits.

I just found a scientific study looking at a new 233nm far UVc LED source. This was better than the typical 254nm UVc but still not as safe as 222nm true far UVc. It looks like they are making progress but need to get the wavelength even shorter, down to 222nm.

JR

 

[Brian Roth]

I was at the local Ace Hardware last week and saw they had a small section of incandescents with very marked down prices. One of the Ace guys was on the aisle and we briefly discussed the situation.

He said they would be fined hundreds of $ per bulb sold after tomorrow (IIRC) and they were going to destroy any remaining stock. I asked about future replacements for the bulb inside my oven and he said there are no choices available. Guess I'll need to keep a flashlight next to the stove.

Bri

 

[AnalogPackrat]

I was at the local Ace Hardware last week and saw they had a small section of incandescents with very marked down prices. One of the Ace guys was on the aisle and we briefly discussed the situation.

He said they would be fined hundreds of $ per bulb sold after tomorrow (IIRC) and they were going to destroy any remaining stock. I asked about future replacements for the bulb inside my oven and he said there are no choices available. Guess I'll need to keep a flashlight next to the stove.

Bri

That's what happens when ideologues gain power and are allowed to make decisions "for" us. I don't often post foul language, but F these morons.

 

[sahib]

The ceiling light we have got over the dinner table in our kitchen has 9 suspension light fittings. We were originally using halogen bulbs which totalled to 360W, and they were popping like chewing gum. With the energy prices rocketing I replaced them with LED bulbs that consume around 8 times less energy but giving the same light output. I was very sceptical initially but there is literally no difference as far as the illumination is concerned.. So there is certainly a savings there.

However, what I object to is taking away the choice. Like Brian the bulb in our microwave popped out and guess what? No replacement available in LED.

But more importantly, take a single tungsten filament bulb. It is pretty much 100% recyclable. You have the glass, tungsten, brass screw/bayonet and the insulating resin. But take an LED bulb. How much of it is recyclable? So called energy efficient industrial light bulbs are even worse. So, in one hand we are "saving the planet" by not producing so much electrical energy, but on the other hand we are happy to dump more poison into the earth.

How about the electronic circuitry inside these bulbs? Or even the electronic ballasts for that reason. A couple of years ago the electrical maintenance guy where my office is had brought in a pile of these ballasts to see if they were repairable. All of them were cheap-sh*t designs and all of them had exactly the same fault. Puncture through the pcb and plastic housing into the chassis which is connected to safety earth naturally. It was obvious that the design did not have protection for voltage rise across the switching transistor. If the product lasts over the warranty period of 1 year, which it does, then who cares after that. If you are going to legislate something then legislate that so that the manufacturers can not produce cheap-sh*t stuff like that. But thanks goodness we saved the planet within the first year of installing it.

 

[jabe]

I asked about future replacements for the bulb inside my oven and he said there are no choices available.

FWIW The restrictions pertain to bulbs classified as "general service lamps" and are not applicable to appliance bulbs. Your hardware store can stock replacements for your oven if they so choose.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

FWIW The restrictions pertain to bulbs classified as "general service lamps" and are not applicable to appliance bulbs. Your hardware store can stock replacements for your oven if they so choose.

Your understanding of economics, manufacturing, etc. are limited. When the factories that make (made) incandescent and halogen bulbs have their productivity limited by gov they are likely to shutter. Expect appliance bulbs to become an expensive niche product (or a black market item). It reminds me of the ridiculous gas can spouts which dribble and spill everywhere which is much worse than the problem they were mandated to "solve."

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The ceiling light we have got over the dinner table in our kitchen has 9 suspension light fittings. We were originally using halogen bulbs which totalled to 360W, and they were popping like chewing gum. With the energy prices rocketing I replaced them with LED bulbs that consume around 8 times less energy but giving the same light output. I was very sceptical initially but there is literally no difference as far as the illumination is concerned.. So there is certainly a savings there.

However, what I object to is taking away the choice. Like Brian the bulb in our microwave popped out and guess what? No replacement available in LED.

But more importantly, take a single tungsten filament bulb. It is pretty much 100% recyclable. You have the glass, tungsten, brass screw/bayonet and the insulating resin.

Exactly!

But take an LED bulb. How much of it is recyclable? So called energy efficient industrial light bulbs are even worse. So, in one hand we are "saving the planet" by not producing so much electrical energy, but on the other hand we are happy to dump more poison into the earth.

And how much energy is used to make all of that stuff that gets tossed in the landfill?

How about the electronic circuitry inside these bulbs? Or even the electronic ballasts for that reason. A couple of years ago the electrical maintenance guy where my office is had brought in a pile of these ballasts to see if they were repairable. All of them were cheap-sh*t designs and all of them had exactly the same fault. Puncture through the pcb and plastic housing into the chassis which is connected to safety earth naturally. It was obvious that the design did not have protection for voltage rise across the switching transistor. If the product lasts over the warranty period of 1 year, which it does, then who cares after that. If you are going to legislate something then legislate that so that the manufacturers can not produce cheap-sh*t stuff like that. But thanks goodness we saved the planet within the first year of installing it.

After the CFL mandate in CA we were forced to use them in our remodel (code changes) in several places like bathrooms and kitchens. Horrible things. When the first one burned out I cut it open. 85C electrolytic in an enclosed space with 10-15W dissipation inside. They never lasted anywhere near their alleged design life. Our halogen and filament bulbs lasted many years on the circuits that had soft start dimmers. Failure is usually at turn-on stress and a half second ramp-up helps greatly.

I like LED lights (2700K) and use the standard replacement bulb types, but I hate the fixtures and lamps with built-in modules that can't be replaced. Now the whole shebang gets trashed after some corner cut part dies. Stupid.

 

[living sounds]

Your understanding of economics, manufacturing, etc. are limited. When the factories that make (made) incandescent and halogen bulbs have their productivity limited by gov they are likely to shutter. Expect appliance bulbs to become an expensive niche product (or a black market item). It reminds me of the ridiculous gas can spouts which dribble and spill everywhere which is much worse than the problem they were mandated to "solve."

Everything is still made somewhere in China...

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Everything is still made somewhere in China...

So? Is it better to ship such items halfway around the world so they can be made without regard to environmental regulation? You'd think the greens would understand these things, but in my experience very very few are able to see the bigger picture and the small details. Unintended consequences are lost on them. It's all mandates, demands, and control without any foresight. And that's coming from a former Sierra Club member.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yup CFLs kind of suck... They can not deal with high temperature... I put one inside and glass bowl lamp fixture, and it burned out much too quickly. It also made the distinctive smell of electronics releasing its magic smoke.

JR

 

[jabe]

Your understanding of economics, manufacturing, etc. are limited.

Is it better to ship such items halfway around the world so they can be made without regard to environmental regulation?

The oven light bulbs were already being made overseas. Seems like basic knowledge for someone deluded with the belief they have superior understanding of economics, manufacturing, etc.

 

[sahib]

...... When the first one burned out I cut it open. 85C electrolytic in an enclosed space with 10-15W dissipation inside. They never lasted anywhere near their alleged design life. Our halogen and filament bulbs lasted many years on the circuits that had soft start dimmers. Failure is usually at turn-on stress and a half second ramp-up helps greatly.

Absolutely.

My wife is half Italian and we have a (very) small house there, up in the mountains. Last April we all went to see a festival that they stage every four years (and I ended up taking part in it but that's another story). We let my sister-in-law and her partner stay in the house and my wife and I moved into the local hotel. Now, the hotel had the type of stair lights timer that the last time I saw was almost 50 years ago (my late dad had electrical engineering business). Remember those timers with mercury filled glass contacts? Clank, on. prrrrrrrrr, clank off. I am certainly not advocating for the use of mercury but how many electronic stair light timers you know that would last 50 years and beyond maintenance free? Because the hotel is up in the mountains nobody obviously interfered with them, but if they were in the city it would have been condemned long time ago. I might be wrong. Our Italian friends could clarify. But what I am trying to echo, as you quite rightly said in one of your posts, is that, not everything new is necessarily the better one.

 

[JohnRoberts]

The oven light bulbs were already being made overseas. Seems like basic knowledge for someone deluded with the belief they have superior understanding of economics, manufacturing, etc.

we all think that we are the smart one... me included...

JR

 

[AnalogPackrat]

The oven light bulbs were already being made overseas. Seems like basic knowledge for someone deluded with the belief they have superior understanding of economics, manufacturing, etc.

Wrong.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/SYLVANIA...nce-Light-Bulb-40-Watt-Clear-1-Pack/120233254

 

[pucho812]

It reminds me of the ridiculous gas can spouts which dribble and spill everywhere which is much worse than the problem they were mandated to "solve."

Government mandates rarely solve anything and often make things worse except for the extra people hired in on the deal often a relative.

 

[Walrus]

Wrong.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/SYLVANIA...nce-Light-Bulb-40-Watt-Clear-1-Pack/120233254

Quote from web page "Operating temperature range between -20°C and +40°C (-4°F and + 104°F)"
Won't last long in an oven.

 

[Tubetec]

Ive been shouting about the chemistry involved in the so called low energy lighting for years , as was said previously the old fashioned incandescent can go back to the ground safely enough ,
CFL's and Led's contain noxious chemicals

At the same time theres limitations on certain types of sealed electronic component like vactrols and luminescent lighting panels used in optical compressors , its makes no sense ,
and its shows up a the glaring double standard behind what government and the energy/electronic industry is trying to do to us .

Production has of course been shifted to a far away place where worker safety isnt a concern , on the other hand we end up with a pile of toxic shit in our own backyard afterwards ,
Its almost certainly another case of humanity setting up problems for itself further down the road ,

Again I second the view that these green cheer leader politcians actually do their homework , realise a lot of the marketing is fraudulent , there is a human cost thats not been calculated in , both in term of production and final disposal .

Ive never been a fan of the light quality of CFL's , they flicker and cause noise in nearby equipment ,
With Leds I dont like the direct light from the bulb hitting my eyes , I use a shade that diverts it more like an up lighter , so its only ever reflected light my eyes get .

I use a 12v 20w halogen desktop lamp on the bench , its also a fairly effective heat source used in close , say to heat a mic capsule to drive off moisture or help cure something thats glued it works great .

 

[jabe]

Wrong.

Robot or human?

Congratulations, you found the lone remaining manufacturer that didn't move production to China decades ago. Meanwhile, thanks for providing a link that proves my point that appliance bulbs are still readily available.

 

[AnalogPackrat]

Congratulations, you found the lone remaining manufacturer that didn't move production to China decades ago. Meanwhile, thanks for providing a link that proves my point that appliance bulbs are still readily available.

You said all were made overseas. Wrong. Readily available for now, but thanks to short-sighted authoritarian do-gooder types it won't be long.