Is it cold enough for 'ya (USA)?

[midwayfair]

Maryland has seen milder winter temps this past decade, with less frequent storms that produce greater than average precipitation.

We haven't had to break out the comforter in years. I don;t think we had a single day this winter with a high below freezing either, which is unusual, normally we got a solid week or two in the teens.

And yeah, the amount of rain that gets dumped on us all at once has definitely been up. My dad's garden is kind of my bellweather.

 

[FarisElek]

I'll tell my niece in Houston TX that is currently without electricity to disregard Fox news (easy when power is shut off).

According to a quick search something like 1.4M Houston customers are without power.

This explanation sounds like a little deflection... don't blame windmills.

I certainly believe they could be seeing shortages of natural gas with the current anti-fossil fuel policy and increased NG demand due to cold weather. I'd be curious to learn more about instruments "freezing" at nuclear and coal power plants. While this arctic weather system is far from normal.


I would embrace more use of modern cycle nuclear power generation. I am not calling for more coal (my local utility's clean coal power plant is burning NG), but I'd appreciate some more common sense. It is the nature of modern discourse to suggest (too) easy answers to complex issues.

I don't blame the wind farms alone but TX seems to have dropped the ball on managing their overall energy needs. It seems like just yesterday TX was bragging about how much energy they got from renewable sources, maybe that is why they are now getting criticized. 

JR

For political and non-structural reasons, ERCOT is not connected the other grids. There are 3 grids including Ercot and the other two are connected. If ERCOT were to join it would be subject to federal regulations, and that's a whole lot worse than preventing a grid failure during the coldest week in 70 years  : .

My ex-girlfriend's father was an energy consultant for ERCOT and others and he said they use to say, "let the northerners freeze in the dark", for their reason for not wanting to join the other grids. I lived in Chicago for 28 years and never once do I remember a black out that plagued the whole region. Just occasional trees falling on lines that was quickly fixed.

 

[Bo Deadly]

If you ever loose power and you have a furnace that runs on gas or oil, note that you can use a computer UPS to power it. Most UPS have a way to turn on without getting mains. With APC units for example, they turn on if you hold down the power button for a few seconds. I used to have an APC 400 something-or-other and that was enough to run the furnace control unit at my mom's house for 12 hours or so. Of course your have to find a place to charge it in between. And it won't work in places like TX where people don't even have furnaces.

 

[crazydoc]

If you ever loose power and you have a furnace that runs on gas or oil, note that you can use a computer UPS to power it. Most UPS have a way to turn on without getting mains. With APC units for example, they turn on if you hold down the power button for a few seconds. I used to have an APC 400 something-or-other and that was enough to run the furnace control unit at my mom's house for 12 hours or so. Of course your have to find a place to charge it in between. And it won't work in places like TX where people don't even have furnaces.

I know nothing factual about this, but if a furnace blower motor draws 5 to 10 amps, with startup surge even higher, I'd doubt a computer UPS backup battery could run the furnace for more than a few minutes, unless there is some kind of furnace that doesn't use a blower.

 

[Bo Deadly]

I know nothing factual about this, but if a furnace blower motor draws 5 to 10 amps, with startup surge even higher, I'd doubt a computer UPS backup battery could run the furnace for more than a few minutes, unless there is some kind of furnace that doesn't use a blower.

Yeah, I'm not talking about forced air. Just steam as in old-school radiators I guess. That controller needs minimal power to open vents and valves and such.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I know nothing factual about this, but if a furnace blower motor draws 5 to 10 amps, with startup surge even higher, I'd doubt a computer UPS backup battery could run the furnace for more than a few minutes, unless there is some kind of furnace that doesn't use a blower.

My neighbor dusted off his generator in case we lost power so he could use his old gas heat (propane?) system. A pretty modest generator to operate his burner/blower. Not enough generator power to run his heat pump.

My tree limb that dropped across my power line yesterday, would have taken out his power too... Three of us share the same one transformer. 

JR

PS: Lots of my neighbors have gas (propane?) fireplaces for extra heat comfort, and gas water heaters (to save money).

 

[Matador]

https://newrepublic.com/article/161386/conservatives-wind-turbines-killing-people-texas-blackouts

As of Monday afternoon, 26 of the 34 gigawatts in ERCOT’s grid that had gone offline were from “thermal” sources, meaning gas and coal. The system’s total installed capacity in the system, Power magazine’s Sonal Patel noted, is around 77.2 GW. Wind and solar power, meanwhile, produced near or even above planned capacity, according to energy analyst Jesse Jenkins, as only small amounts of wind and solar are utilized in peaking conditions. Wind turbines did indeed freeze, and did eventually underperform. But so did natural gas infrastructure, and to a far greater degree. That proved to be a much larger problem since it makes up such a huge proportion of the state’s power supply in extreme weather. And frozen power lines and equipment were a far bigger cause of outages than generation shortages.

But I'm more interested in hearing more about how renewables are to blame.

 

[Brian Roth]

https://newrepublic.com/article/161386/conservatives-wind-turbines-killing-people-texas-blackouts
But I'm more interested in hearing more about how renewables are to blame.

https://timesofsandiego.com/business/2021/02/16/californias-rolling-blackouts-were-nothing-compared-to-texas-winter-grid-meltdown/

Midway into that article:

"Conservative Texas politicians immediately blamed wind energy, but it turns out the problem was primarily due to coal and natural gas plants shutting down.

Bri

 

[Brian Roth]

My elderly night owl Mom informs me there is no running water at her home.  But, electric and gas are OK.

https://kfor.com/news/local/oklahoma-city-residents-experiencing-low-or-no-water-pressure-city-asks-residents-to-not-use-dishwashers-washing-machines/

sigh

Bri

 

[living sounds]

I would embrace more use of modern cycle nuclear power generation. I am not calling for more coal (my local utility's clean coal power plant is burning NG), but I'd appreciate some more common sense. It is the nature of modern discourse to suggest (too) easy answers to complex issues.

I'm all for renewables as the general 'daily driver' source of energy. But added to that a strong fallback latest generation nuclear solution. Not only for the more or less 'normal' cold spells, but also for relatively common catastrophic events like massive vulcanic eruptions. In 1816 (the year without a summer) the bicycle was invented because most of the horses had been eaten to provide food...

 

[JohnRoberts]

https://newrepublic.com/article/161386/conservatives-wind-turbines-killing-people-texas-blackouts
But I'm more interested in hearing more about how renewables are to blame.

This finger pointing is what passes for political analysis these days.

Over the last decade or so TX has expanded their renewable energy investments significantly as well as power demand from increasing population and business growth.

The frozen wind turbines make attractive talking points for less progressive thinkers but any serious analysis can find plenty of blame to go around. This is clearly an unusual weather event, and suggests careful analysis of all energy sources pros and cons (I still really like modern nuclear technology).

I hope my niece's family in Houston is not frozen solid, but she's smart so I am not too worried. 

I am pleased to see my outdoor temps rising up to 22' already, spring can't come soon enough for me.

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

I'm all for renewables as the general 'daily driver' source of energy. But added to that a strong fallback latest generation nuclear solution. Not only for the more or less 'normal' cold spells, but also for relatively common catastrophic events like massive vulcanic eruptions. In 1816 (the year without a summer) the bicycle was invented because most of the horses had been eaten to provide food...

We agree...sort of.

In my judgement Germany was too fast to abandon nuclear power generation. Germany was getting something like 25% of their electricity from nuclear now more like 12% with 40% from coal. But public sentiment appears to be firmly opposed to new nuclear plants. Nuclear is too expensive to build out for JIC energy generation, while the old technology probably need to be replaced. Batteries also have a place for emergency power, but I don't see that working for long cold snaps.

The heavy subsidization and reliance on renewable energy will reveal its wisdom or not over time. It sure sounds good on paper (feels good)... 

JR 

 

[fazer]

spring can't come soon enough for me.

Agreed.  However Spring here also means big snowfall but we need the moisture.  We’ve been getting 1 to 2 inches.  Not much water in that.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Agreed.  However Spring here also means big snowfall but we need the moisture.  We’ve been getting 1 to 2 inches.  Not much water in that.

I have no shortage of water this year (while last summer was dry).

Because of the unusually cold weather I have turned off my sump pump (pumping ground water from under my house).  Last week the cheap vinyl discharge hose blew out. It wasn't even freezing outside but the vinyl hose got brittle and split.  Even in this hard freezing weather the ground water isn't frozen, but pointless to try to pump it out until temperatures rise.

I also brought my plastic rain gauge in, because when it freezes with water in it, it cracks and stops holding rain.

JR

 

[iturnknobs]

The heavy subsidization and reliance on renewable energy will reveal its wisdom or not over time. It sure sounds good on paper (feels good)... 

JR

Fossil fuel plants are already connected to the grid. Keep them as backups in case of "adverse weather events". Solar won't likely fail in the event of an unprecedented heat wave, in fact It would likely excel as energy demand for HVAC increases. It is documented that the private company controlling the grid has not put in place deicing infrastructure for wind generators AND other systems. Glad they saved a buck by avoiding regulations. Governor Abbott warned how the green new deal would be catastrophic in situations like these. Fossil fuel schill. Texas State government has been Republican led for over 20 years. Let 'em freeze. Only pain will bring change through elections. Refer to my signature tag.

edit:Abbott made that claim last night on Hannity. I can't believe how often they speak of "fake news" on that program.

 

[iturnknobs]

If ERCOT were to join it would be subject to federal regulations, and that's a whole lot worse than preventing a grid failure during the coldest week in 70 years  : .

My ex-girlfriend's father was an energy consultant for ERCOT and others and he said they use to say, "let the northerners freeze in the dark", for their reason for not wanting to join the other grids. I lived in Chicago for 28 years and never once do I remember a black out that plagued the whole region.

Here's some "pro" anti-regulation info for the right wingers that will they likely not read or think about.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-electricity-texas-prices-idUSKBN2AF19A

edit: 10,000% price increase for electricity in Texas if you're too stubborn to click on the link...

 

[JohnRoberts]

Fossil fuel plants are already connected to the grid. Keep them as backups in case of "adverse weather events". Solar won't likely fail in the event of an unprecedented heat wave,

Solar panels don't work well when covered by snow

in fact It would likely excel as energy demand for HVAC increases. It is documented that the private company controlling the grid has not put in place deicing infrastructure for wind generators AND other systems.

I heard reports of trying to deice wind turbines using helicopters.

Glad they saved a buck by avoiding regulations. Governor Abbott warned how the green new deal would be catastrophic in situations like these. Fossil fuel schill. Texas State government has been Republican led for over 20 years. Let 'em freeze. Only pain will bring change through elections. Refer to my signature tag.

edit:Abbott made that claim last night on Hannity. I can't believe how often they speak of "fake news" on that program.

Hannity is not a news program (I wondered who watches him, you?)... that is clearly a right wing talking point. AOC countered that TX didn't have enough renewable energy. I don't take either extreme viewpoint very seriously.

===
Good news(?) I hear that my niece got power for a few hours yesterday, so not just a downed power lines problem but not enough energy available feeding the grid. Here I've seen lots of local utility trucks on the road yesterday and today making repairs to downed power lines (I was lucky with mine).

Good news I notice that the pulp wood logging trucks are running on the roads again (people still want toilet paper). They have been running these trucks 7 days a week since covid and all the TP hoarding began.

Bad news, my post office is still closed... "neither rain, nor sleet, nor snow" IS NOT the official motto of the post office while some have gone so far as to engrave it on post office building facades. The saying comes form a history by Herodotus talking about the mounted courier system of Persian King Darius many centuries ago. So no WSJ for several days now, but no problem I can get the latest news right here.

More good news, the outside temp just broke 32' for the first time in several days, toasty...

JR 

 

[groselicain]

You know, I have to ask the three or four folks who've turned yet another thread into a political argument—who do you believe benefits from what you're doing? I don't know about everyone reading, but I assume folks in my position—just got my power back, house had gotten down to an internal temperature of 40, and my lights are flickering off and on even now as the winds are starting to get back up—might've gotten on GroupDIY for just a moment of relief.

I saw Brian's thread title and guessed it might've been a place to commiserate. Wrong again, I suppose.

 

[shabtek]

Can’t even have a common enemy anymore  :-\

 

[hodad]

In Texas at least, this cold weather is inded political:

Former Texas governor Rick Perry suggests that going days without power is a sacrifice Texans should be willing to make if it means keeping federal regulators out of the state’s power grid.

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/energy/article/Perry-says-Texans-wiling-to-suffer-blackouts-to-15956705.php?utm_campaign=socialflow&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=referral