Is the K47 capsule too dark?

[kingkorg]

@soliloqueen i was responding to Tomas' post.

 

[soliloqueen]

@soliloqueen i was responding to Tomas' post.

and he was replying to mine sorry for the confusion!

 

[James-F]

True CK12 can be all over the place as it can be tuned. The reason why elam and c12 can sound vastly different from piece to piece.

Regarding this, are the general characteristics the same or is it a complete lottery with C12 capsules?

What about sound, do people prefer C12 over K67 for flat circuits?
Why the NT1A is considered to be bright with its factory C12 variation?; can I expect the same with an Aliexpress C12 capsule?

 

[kingkorg]

Neither NT1 nor Aliexpress capsules are C12 capsules. NT1 doesn't even have rear diaphragm. They are something called edge terminated k67. A sort of hybrid, very similar to k67. True c12 is more expensive, made by several boutique manufacturers. True c12 capsule has a broad even hf boost, is slightly scooped, and has huge low end. K67 and edge terminated c12 types have higher q in hf boost, often two peaks in high midrange and another one at about 10k. Take a look at c800g response for k67.

But these are just generalizations, most of them vary quite a bit depending on manufacturer. There are flat(ish) k67, flat(ish) c12... And Rode capsules vary depending on mic model despite having the same design. K47 and M7 are also all over the place, especially vintage ones, but i never came across a pertucularly bright one.

 

[thedarksidemic]

Hi folks, first time poster here, but I have a K47 capsule installed into my Rode NT1A bought from Aliexpress, and i was wondering the same thing - is it just too dark?

This is the one i bought:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001937151942.html?spm=a2g0o.9042311.0.0.6e664c4dyQZOgT
I have no other K47s to compare but i l think its miles better than the original NT1A cap (although that wouldn't be difficult)

I would characterise as quite close to some of my dynamics - SM7B ish in the way the high end feels rolled off - doesn't feel like theres much extension / sheen there - maybe thats the K47 characteristic ?

Heres a sample: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T3pEeMaiNmDBTC9nP7eND9ppthVkJC5N/view?usp=sharing

All the best, Mike

 

[tomas.borgstrom]

@tomas.borgstrom , i really don't see the point of your post besides pushing for Maiku which is another rebranded Chinese capsule. The original post was about k47 in general, and it is true they sound darker than ck12 or k67. If you think otherwise there must be something wrong with k47 you are using. There are many different models of k47 on Aliexpress, and neither of those i have tried exhibit properties you are describing. I am pretty sure i have tried and measured all of them. What does it mean they are not products for professional use? Those Aliexpress capsules are found in many boutique 2000$ +++ mics used professionally. Do you have examples, measuremens, samples?

This is CMV563 microphone response with M7 capsule. Not sure if it qualifies as a profesional microphone.

Ok, not a very friendly reply. I'm only trying to share my experience.
When I read my post I see these points: 1. I don't think Neumann K47 is a dark capsule 2. I think it's important to specify what brand of K47 we're discussing. 3. I have read many posts on this topic that I find misleading 4. The capsules I bought from Aliexpress does not sound good 5. I think Maiku is a better choice.

I can see room for improvement in my post. I could have left Maiku out of the discussion. I can myself be more specific. I have one Maiku K47 and two Aliexpress K47. I tested them against a Neumann/Sennheiser K47 in a M49. Vocals and Martin D45. This is the capsule from Aliexpress I'm talking about: 64.0US $ |K47 mikrofon kapsel 34mm * 9,6mm große goldene membran dual seite 6 mikron für DIY studio mikrofon audio teil K47|Microphone Accessories| - AliExpress
I don't have measurements but I made some test recordings with acoustic guitar. I can try to find them. The capsules are reskinned so I can't make any measurements.
If there are other aliexpress K47 that sound good that's great. Does anybody have a link? Which are the many boutique mics that use aliexpress capsules? Which aliexpress capsules are they using?

I own a CMV563. It's a really cool microphone with a very unique sound. In its stock East German configuration the quality is varying a lot (I can recommend Oliver Archut's great article on this). Some of these do not sound professional (but I can see them being used as a lofi microphone with great success). In mine, I've restored the electronics, changed the transformer to AMI and the M7 is reskinned by Gefell. It sounds much better now and definitely qualifies as a professional microphone but still it does not reach the quality of the Neumann Berlin microphones. I'd love to hear the reissue.

I know the discussion regarding the credibility of Maiku. Is it proven that Maiku is rebranded and not assembled and reskinned in Switzerland as it says on their website?

Sorry for this thread loosing its focus. I wont write more about Neumann, Gefell or Maiku.

 

[James-F]

I would characterise as quite close to some of my dynamics - SM7B ish in the way the high end feels rolled off - doesn't feel like theres much extension / sheen there - maybe thats the K47 characteristic ?

Hey DSOTM !
I've bought a V7x after watching your videos on youtube, I also own an M201TG and you are absolutely right, they are remarkably close.

Yes, the K47 definitely sounds too dark to me in your NT1+K47 video, that's why I started this thread.
I suspect the K47 is not for everyone, way overhyped around the "mic modding" corners of the internet in my personal opinion.
And as I said, it is always better to cut than boost frequencies in post for noise reasons, ie. if you find yourself boosting highs of the K47 loaded mic then it is not the right mic for the situation, in my opinion.

 

[thedarksidemic]

Hi yeah thats what i was thinking, I might order a Maiku or a 3uAudio one and do a compare. I was expecting dark but maybe a bit more sheen than i got - its by no means unusable, just, as you say, you need to pick the right source for it. I think the high end, generally, is more difficult to EQ if it's not right - its hard to get rid of bright harshness and potentially noisy if you boost too much. Still 2/3db might be fine as a boost. I was tempted to try an M7 (which should be ever so slightly brighter) but it wont fit in the NT1A body, so thats a rabbithole I'd rather not go down for that mic...

 

[tomas.borgstrom]

Heres two short clips of my Martin D45 recorded simultaneously with my M49b pair. One with Alibaba K47 and one with Neumann K47. Preamp Crane Song Flamingo, no processing. As you hear the Neumann is much brighter. The guitar has a lot of overtones that the Alibaba capsule does not capture. I have several Neumann K47 and they sound the same.
I never intended to publish. It was just me testing before I decided that I had no use for the Alibaba. If I planned sharing I would have done more recordings with different instruments.

 

[tomas.borgstrom]

Hi yeah thats what i was thinking, I might order a Maiku or a 3uAudio one and do a compare. I was expecting dark but maybe a bit more sheen than i got - its by no means unusable, just, as you say, you need to pick the right source for it. I think the high end, generally, is more difficult to EQ if it's not right - its hard to get rid of bright harshness and potentially noisy if you boost too much. Still 2/3db might be fine as a boost. I was tempted to try an M7 (which should be ever so slightly brighter) but it wont fit in the NT1A body, so thats a rabbithole I'd rather not go down for that mic...

I'm waiting for one 3uAudio K47 and one M7 to arrive. I'll test them against Maiku, Theirsch and Neumann. Sorry if I'm once again of another opinion but I find M7 smoother than K47. K47 has more spark, a tiny bit more aggressive in the mid and top, more clarity. I prefer M7 in U47. I don't think I've heard them both in another microphone.

 

[thedarksidemic]

Heres two short clips of my Martin D45 recorded simultaneously with my M49b pair. One with Alibaba K47 and one with Neumann K47. Preamp Crane Song Flamingo, no processing. As you hear the Neumann is much brighter. The guitar has a lot of overtones that the Alibaba capsule does not capture. I have several Neumann K47 and they sound the same.
I never intended to publish. It was just me testing before I decided that I had no use for the Alibaba. If I planned sharing I would have done more recordings with different instruments.

yep thats night and day of a difference, The Neumann sounds miles more alive and sparkly! thanks for the comparison. However, You can see the Aliexpress K47 working well on a violin or something like that, where the high end can be quite piercing at times and it might round it off a bit.

 

[tomas.borgstrom]

Dark microphones can really save the day when it comes to violins. U67 and ribbon microphones, especially Coles, can do magic. If the aliexpress capsule can make a decent dark microphone I don't know. Besides the darkness I think it lacks depth. If you make a K47 clone and the result is so far off I don't think you've done a particularly good job.

 

[thedarksidemic]

Dark microphones can really save the day when it comes to violins. U67 and ribbon microphones, especially Coles, can do magic. If the aliexpress capsule can make a decent dark microphone I don't know. Besides the darkness I think it lacks depth. If you make a K47 clone and the result is so far off I don't think you've done a particularly good job.

Depth is a good point, when I compared mine to other mics, it just feels slightly veiled, and thats something that's more than just a 'dark high end'. Id still take it over the stock NT1A but that's not a high bar (A hammer would have improved that mic). My Nt1A board must be 10-15 years old, I don't know if the circuit has changed in that time either - a fair bit of talk about how much voltage that circuit sends to the capsule (of which i'm just trying to understand the basics) but Im keen to hear any comparisons between the Maiku and the 3Uaudio (i have two of their mics and they are wonderful) if you ever get round to that.

 

[soliloqueen]

Heres two short clips of my Martin D45 recorded simultaneously with my M49b pair. One with Alibaba K47 and one with Neumann K47. Preamp Crane Song Flamingo, no processing. As you hear the Neumann is much brighter. The guitar has a lot of overtones that the Alibaba capsule does not capture. I have several Neumann K47 and they sound the same.
I never intended to publish. It was just me testing before I decided that I had no use for the Alibaba. If I planned sharing I would have done more recordings with different instruments.

for visual reference: diff curve for neumann and alibaba:


Reversing this curve actually EQed them into a pretty decent-sounding stereo recording!

 

[kingkorg]

@tomas.borgstrom, thanks for the files. Neumann has about 5db more in the upper midrange, or the Ali cap has a dip there. I will presume the Neumann cap is in order, so there has to be something wrong with the Ali capsule. I personally haven't encountered this issue.

Also i believe we have a different view on the mics, i don't see how CMV is not a professional mic stock, but that's just me. I don't see the point of sending the capsule to Gefel for reskin if you don't like it stock as it is the same east germany company that produced it in the first place.

I am not calling any company out on using chinese capsules as i am tired of that, there is a lot written about it already not difficult to find.

As for the "Swiss'' capsule manufacturer they are rebranded capsules, possibly reskined there but still same backplates that come from the same place. You can not tune capsule by stretching mylar yourself, countrary to what many think. The backplates are the key.

I have to apologize, i thought you were trolling. There have been so many random people just jumping into discussion and pushing for their favorite "boutique product". I like to think this forum is still about DIY instead of advertising platform.

@soliloqueen are you now all of a sudden reading my mind? Exactly what i just did LoL!

 

[James-F]

@thedarksidemic Before you needlessly buy another K47 capsule, try a K87 capsule from Aliexpress, they are plentiful and cheap.
My NT1A has a K87 capsule from Ali and I think it sounds great.

 

[soliloqueen]

it sounds like overzealous gluing on the alibaba capsule may have sealed it airtight. this is exactly why i don't use glue anywhere on mine

 

[tomas.borgstrom]

@tomas.borgstrom, thanks for the files. Neumann has about 5db more in the upper midrange, or the Ali cap has a dip there. I will presume the Neumann cap is in order, so there has to be something wrong with the Ali capsule. I personally haven't encountered this issue.

Also i believe we have a different view on the mics, i don't see how CMV is not a professional mic stock, but that's just me. I don't see the point of sending the capsule to Gefel for reskin if you don't like it stock as it is the same east germany company that produced it in the first place.

I am not calling any company out on using chinese capsules as i am tired of that, there is a lot written about it already not difficult to find.

As for the "Swiss'' capsule manufacturer they are rebranded capsules, possibly reskined there but still same backplates that come from the same place. You can not tune capsule by stretching mylar yourself, countrary to what many think. The backplates are the key.

I have to apologize, i thought you were trolling. There have been so many random people just jumping into discussion and pushing for their favorite "boutique product". I like to think this forum is still about DIY instead of advertising platform.

@soliloqueen are you now all of a sudden reading my mind? Exactly what i just did LoL!

I had a feeling that you thought I was involved in some shady business. No problem. Sad to hear that the forum gets infiltrated like that.
I'm quite the opposite. I'm completely on my own. I record mostly classical music and I spend too much time in my cave and too much money on microphones and microphone parts. I service vintage microphones. They often turn up with worn out capsules and I used to buy new capsules from Neumann/Sennheiser but since they stopped selling parts I have to find other ways to make these museum objects to sound good again.
The K47 in the clip is healthy. The only Neumann K47 I have that doesn't sound as it should is way to sibilant around 4k.

I don't know if all the aliexpress K47 sound like this. But tight tolerance and quality control is of course really important. Maybe I was lucky with my Maiku. I have a K67 from a company that tend to get a lot of criticism. It sounds exactly lika a Neumann K67. Maybe it was a good unit because I had a K47 and an M7 from the same company and they didn't sound good. The M7 sounded really bad. I actually complained to them but was told that I was wrong.

My CMV563 was reskinned when I bought it. As Oliver writes in the article some stock CMV563 and UM57 sound decent and some sound really bad because of variations in the electronics, mostly in the transformer. They struggled to get hold of nickel based alloy in the GDR. My microphone sounded ok but was very midrangy before service and switching to the AMI transformer. Now its more extended but it is still very excited in the midrange which I enjoy. Can't really use it when I record classical music though.

@soliloqueen thank you for supporting my comparison with some nice graphics

 

[innercityman]

Ok, not a very friendly reply. I'm only trying to share my experience.
When I read my post I see these points: 1. I don't think Neumann K47 is a dark capsule 2. I think it's important to specify what brand of K47 we're discussing. 3. I have read many posts on this topic that I find misleading 4. The capsules I bought from Aliexpress does not sound good 5. I think Maiku is a better choice.

I can see room for improvement in my post. I could have left Maiku out of the discussion. I can myself be more specific. I have one Maiku K47 and two Aliexpress K47. I tested them against a Neumann/Sennheiser K47 in a M49. Vocals and Martin D45. This is the capsule from Aliexpress I'm talking about: 64.0US $ |K47 mikrofon kapsel 34mm * 9,6mm große goldene membran dual seite 6 mikron für DIY studio mikrofon audio teil K47|Microphone Accessories| - AliExpress
I don't have measurements but I made some test recordings with acoustic guitar. I can try to find them. The capsules are reskinned so I can't make any measurements.
If there are other aliexpress K47 that sound good that's great. Does anybody have a link? Which are the many boutique mics that use aliexpress capsules? Which aliexpress capsules are they using?

I own a CMV563. It's a really cool microphone with a very unique sound. In its stock East German configuration the quality is varying a lot (I can recommend Oliver Archut's great article on this). Some of these do not sound professional (but I can see them being used as a lofi microphone with great success). In mine, I've restored the electronics, changed the transformer to AMI and the M7 is reskinned by Gefell. It sounds much better now and definitely qualifies as a professional microphone but still it does not reach the quality of the Neumann Berlin microphones. I'd love to hear the reissue.

I know the discussion regarding the credibility of Maiku. Is it proven that Maiku is rebranded and not assembled and reskinned in Switzerland as it says on their website?

Sorry for this thread loosing its focus. I wont write more about Neumann, Gefell or Maiku.

Maiku K47 capsule sounds great, worth the price. I bought a first one that I've put on my MK-47 and a second one that I will put in a DEF-47 I'm building at the moment. Sounds no dark at all. Silky High ends.

 

[AV]

Hello
I am following this thread about K47 capsules and I ask myself, are all AliExpress K47 capsules the same?
There is a lot of different prices and it will be a couple of different manufacturers, so, it makes sense to compare it with original ones?
I think there is a lot of different sounds, different manufacturers, different qualities in AliExpress. Maybe the same seller could sell capsules made in different manufacturers. So, I think that is really difficult to discover which is the sound or quality of "AliExpress capsules".