Mavis Prima MPA-81s is a very nice donor mic platform

[kingkorg]

It seems cryo-treating audio gear is not new audio foolery concept after all. It's just that somehow I was lucky enough not to encounter it until now.

If it's not measurable, yet as much as 5% audible, I can't adress it at this point. This goes beyond my understanding of the world we live in. I am still getting one of these mics sooner or later to test terrestrial aspects of these microphones. Just by looking at pictures, I see several issues in the construction.

Marvelous post by CTP Cryogenics on their IG page where they occasionally, between treatment of camshafts, brake discs, do some tubes. Love the marketing plot under the image.

Then, there are HEALTHY people who want their brains frozen, so....

While wasting whole day on this new concept I found that ChatGPT summarized it much better than i ever could.


Cryogenic treatment, often referred to as cryo treatment, involves cooling materials to extremely low temperatures (usually below -300°F or -150°C) to alter their microstructure and potentially improve their properties. Companies like CTP Cryogenics claim that such treatments can enhance the performance of audio equipment by reducing internal stresses, improving conductivity, and enhancing durability.

### Claims and Support

1. **Improved Conductivity:** Proponents argue that cryo treatment can realign the molecular structure of metals, reducing resistivity and improving electrical conductivity. For audio equipment, this theoretically translates to better signal transmission and improved sound quality.

2. **Durability:** Cryogenic treatment is also claimed to enhance the durability of materials by relieving internal stresses and making the structure more uniform.

3. **Sound Quality:** Some audiophiles and manufacturers report subjective improvements in sound quality, including clarity, detail, and overall musicality after cryo treatment.

### Controversy and Criticism

1. **Scientific Evidence:** The scientific community is divided on the effectiveness of cryo treatment for audio equipment. While some studies suggest potential benefits in terms of material properties, there is limited empirical evidence directly linking cryo treatment to significant improvements in audio performance.

2. **Subjectivity:** Improvements in sound quality are often subjective and can be influenced by a placebo effect. Audiophiles' perceptions can be affected by their expectations and biases.

3. **Skepticism:** Many audio engineers and skeptics argue that the claimed benefits of cryo treatment for audio equipment are exaggerated and not supported by rigorous scientific testing. They contend that any improvements are likely marginal and not easily perceptible in typical listening conditions.


### Conclusion

While there is some theoretical basis for cryo treatment potentially improving the properties of audio equipment, the evidence supporting significant audio performance enhancements is limited and often anecdotal. The controversy mainly revolves around the subjective nature of perceived sound improvements and the lack of rigorous scientific validation. If considering CTP Cryogenics, it is advisable to research customer reviews and industry feedback to gauge the company's trustworthiness and the potential value of their services.

 

[Khron]

Marvelous post by CTP Cryogenics in their IG post where they occasionally between treatment of camshafts, brake discs do some tubes. Love the marketing plot under the image.

I particularly appreciate their putting "noise" in quote marks

 

[Voyager10]

OK, neither the Vanguard or Mavis mics in the original post are tube mics, and don't claim to have anything cryogenically treated.

Fascinating though it is, can I please ask that we keep on topic, or start a new thread?

 

[Paul W]

OK, neither the Vanguard or Mavis mics in the original post are tube mics, and don't claim to have anything cryogenically treated.

Fascinating though it is, can I please ask that we keep on topic, or start a new thread?

Apparently Vanguard does claim to cryogenically treat microphone components and that it improves them. @Wordsushi's new Vanguard V4 video credulously repeats stuff he was told by Derek from Vanguard which seems a whole lot like marketing BS.

 

[MicMaven]

3. **Skepticism:** Many audio engineers and skeptics argue that the claimed benefits of cryo treatment for audio equipment are exaggerated and not supported by rigorous scientific testing.

Yep. I once left my favorite headphones overnight in a car on a very cold (-15 F/-26 C) night, and they were ruined. I have seen the deleterious effects on guitars left overnight in very cold cars - they never play or sound the same afterward.

Nevertheless, I am fairly certain freezing WILL improve the flow of electrons in my 2 AWG four-foot long $400 OFC audio cables with $150 gold sputtered AC plugs and special Dacron weave insulation ... well, at least after they thaw out.)

So, count me among the skeptics.

[He typed donning his magnetic wrist bracelet, and soaking his charcoal infused insoles with WD-40 to detoxify his liver, improve circulation and minimize arthritis pain, while rubbing his favorite rabbit's foot, and anointing himself with snake oil.]

Anonymous

 

[damien]

I live in Canada, we don't need cryogenic treatment here. Music sounds better up north

I wonder if those 100MOhms and higher values (1 GOhms) thick films resistors have an impact on the sound, because when you buy them from Ohmite at mouser they are like 7$ each which is almost half the price of cheap chinese condenser microphones.

 

[Khron]

I wonder if those 100MOhms and higher values (1 GOhms) thick films resistors have an impact on the sound, because when you buy them from Ohmite at mouser they are like 7$ each which is almost half the price of cheap chinese condenser microphones.

Probably not. But those $7 ones are also waaaaaaay higher-power than you'll ever need in a mic. I'm partial to the TE Connectivity RGP0207 series (sub-$1 a piece).

 

[mmadu]

On the one hand, I'm glad there is a pretty nice donor body available. On the other hand, I'm sad that the Vanguard design is not protected in any way. Those shops in China don't have any regard for any intelectual properties. Zero ethics. It pisses me off. I own a couple Vanguard mics and use the V44S Mk2 all the time on drum room.

I admit this for some well-known manufacturers' products (such as Neumann or Sennheiser), but for manufacturers such as Peluso/Avantone or Advanced Audio, this statement seems biased - their income seems insufficient to support them having their own production lines and design teams. Given China's low labor costs and mature industrial system, the relationship between these products seems worth exploring.

 

[McIrish]

I'm not sure I follow exactly what you are saying.
I read through this thread again and was hoping Derek would have posted again but I fear the hostility got a little too high. It's a shame. I appreciated the fact that he came here in the first place. I'm not a an expert and the Vanguard marketing may be a bit over the top, but I do own a couple of their mics and have found them to be very useful. As I stated before, the V44S is my drum room mic in Blumlien. I've found the V13 is great on cello. I bought it for vocals, but it's never won a shootout on voice. It does shine on cello though. On the other hand, my Flat47 capsule has never won a vocal shootout either. I'd love if KingKorg was able to get one of the Vanguard mics and run some tests. That would be great.

 

[mmadu]

In fact, for a startup enterprise interested in the microphone manufacturing industry, a more common practice is to order some pre designed products from Chinese microphone manufacturers and only make some color modifications (such as most of Avatone's microphone products). Although after a period of sales, they usually hire designers to make minor modifications (such as replacing capacitors) to these microphones from China, Chinese manufacturers still have the original version of their microphones, and the exterior design and color matching cannot be protected by copyright laws. Therefore, these unmodified original microphones will appear on eBay or Alibaba, and they usually have only minor differences from the versions sold by distributors (such as cheaper diaphragms or cheaper capacitors), It doesn't sound like there's a significant difference. So if you're short of money, buy it.