Isostat and Dialistat switches: Neve and SSL desks

[Newmarket]

Kilopoise 'grease' for lubrication. Similar used in P&G faders...

https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/lubricants/0822349/

 

[jwhmca]

Picture 1

 

[jwhmca]

Picture 2

 

[Brian Roth]

Picture 2

I recall your postings at sslmixed.com from years ago, but the attached pix are long-gone.

Looks like a clever solution.

Bri

 

[Matt Syson]

Hi folks
I can tell you that applying cramolin (2 part cleaner and contact 'enhancer') brings a whole new meaning to solid state logic.
In around 1986 I was tasked with checking a suitable 'cleaner' for Isostats as used on Calrec desks when I worked at Calrec.
Applying the cleaner following the instructions carefully I can say they became wonderfully clean and reliable. sadly on rechecking the test batch of about 30 or more, practically all had welded themselves solid. Contacts were clean but switch motion was impossible. The solution that was taken was to replace all the switches .
Matt S

 

[dirty1_1garry]

Hi!
did not read a whole thread, just write it here.
I have left a few dozens nos Dialistat switches and other spare from Neve V36 console repair. Was bought from AMS Neve tech department directly. PM if interest.

 

[Notable]

I have a Neve 5316 (w 31 channels of broadcast 33144b modules and even more 8 channel assignment aux switches) and have assignment, solo and mute switch struggles. If a replacement switch is created….please reach out to me.
I’d be in. There was a person named Jim Hickey who was making switches that fit my group switches with an alternate method but I have not heard back from him in a while. I believe my switches are the dialstat but have a smaller footprint ( metal frame holds them closer together). In any case everyones passion to find a solution here is very much appreciated!
i wonder if any of you have found a glue you like for the plastic caps that go a top the aluminum knobs. The heat that goes up through the knobs drys out the glue and I have a regular monthly dance I would love to avoid. My best to you all.
Daniel
Notable.com

 

[musika]

Love that Notable website Daniel. Welcome.

 

[mikebalboa]

I have a Neve 5316 (w 31 channels of broadcast 33144b modules and even more 8 channel assignment aux switches) and have assignment, solo and mute switch struggles. If a replacement switch is created….please reach out to me.
I’d be in. There was a person named Jim Hickey who was making switches that fit my group switches with an alternate method but I have not heard back from him in a while. I believe my switches are the dialstat but have a smaller footprint ( metal frame holds them closer together). In any case everyones passion to find a solution here is very much appreciated!
i wonder if any of you have found a glue you like for the plastic caps that go a top the aluminum knobs. The heat that goes up through the knobs drys out the glue and I have a regular monthly dance I would love to avoid. My best to you all.
Daniel
Notable.com

Hi Daniel, I have a 5315 and have had good results keeping the plastic knob tops on with “GE Silicone II Household Glue”.

I‘m also looking for replacements for the bus assignment, pan, solo and mute switches.

 

[Returnofthebatt]

Hey, Everyone.

I just wanted to give an update as it has been some time—about a year which flew by.

The place where I was having the prototype latches made canceled my order unexpectedly back in July as I switched the designated materials and they don't allow groups of an item for that material to be manufactured. The material switch needed to happen as the original material proved to be too elastic and would deform quickly and prevent a switch from latching fully and correctly. Anyway, I found a new manufacturer who offered materials even better suited for the latch. So, I spent some time modifying the latch design to improve manufacturability for the new material options and that manufacturer. Unfortunately, other projects occupied my time and took me away from the latches. All that really needs to be done is confirm the design and order the new set of latches for testing. Once ordered, which I should hopefully be able to do so soon, I should receive the latches within two weeks and can test soon thereafter.

Jacob

 

[MATCH RECORDING]

We have a few thousand NEW Dialistat switches and thousands of latch pins..... But we also have a mini PCB that attaches to a relay for 4 poles or more. You had to think a little outside the box to do this. No Dialistat required....It works perfectly on our VRL and VX and this is not some cobbled together junk. I would only recommend using the relays in crucial parts the mech part that does the work can do the 2 pole on its own. For the first 2 poles is all you need for this to work as those switches don't normally have LED's... The parts to do the replacements for the 4 or more were always in front of most just nobody thought enough outside the box. I showed this to Musgrave and he about flipped out! Exact same pitch etc and the distance from PCB and switch height (sometimes a little slight pin bending to get them into the PCB). You have to do a little cutting down of the original R angle from Mill Max but no big deal. And attaching a wire or two. BUT THE CONFIDENCE THAT IT WILL ALWAYS FIRE IS KEY..... And also lowers the distortion exp on the pan switch....

So for every 2 poles extra the just add a relay the power at least on the V series is on the top two poles.

I am sure JAKOB could make a PCB and the pins for the PCB are Mill Max also.

We have a few thousand PCB's but are doing the rest of the desks little by little.

The Part Numbers for the right angle are 299-99-210-12-001800
relays are G6k-2P-DC12
The Momentary switches are TL2201OAYA
LATCHING ARE TL2201EEYA

We did every chip upgrade possible to our desks and they sound great. The only reason we didn't buy an 88R is that A.) its surface mount so there's issue one so screw repairing it easily. B.) SSL kind of was almost a decade ahead with the 9K and yet people still liked the 4K's. C.) When you open up the prints for an 88R there are many of the same from the VR. D.) There were chip upgrades but that was easily done. The switches were the hurdle. And the Burroughs meters you can use the drivers and get 101 segment LEDs....

 

[reverend CArter]

I'm about to undertake refurbishing the vr60 at the place I'm working at that is in pretty good shape for its age. The switches on this board have pretty much sent the last 3 techs before me to heavy drinking and/or early exit however. we have a little bit of spares but not a lot of em. if you have any more info on that relay mod or who/where I should start looking that would be awesome. its already got an atomic psu and looking into doing a tangerine system for the computer later on down the line.

 

[MATCH RECORDING]

Well where do I start..... We own the worlds largest supply of Dialistat switches and latches anymore and we came up with the relay mod. There is much to understand about how to deal with these desks. When they are up and running they are great. But getting them to that point is a very steep slope. Things that you think may be bad op amps in the eq are nothing more that either a bad pot and or a cold solder joint on the pot. The knobs are also impossible to find also I have about 4-5K of those and then the meters as well the Burroughs glass tubes are no longer made. I have a few hundred of those. The atomic PSU while is efficient and we do use one also. But to test the desk from ground zero the stick ones are better as you can see the SMPS up there on your scope. If you have never dealt with a VR I would highly suggest hiring one of us that deals with these for a day or two for some pointers if not you will be in a very deep hole. I know I may sound jaded but they can throw you many curve balls if you don't have a deep understanding of them and the fact that the manuals SUCK! The Licon switches for the cut and solo are also integral to the recall system actually functioning properly. The ones that are made in the UK are a good replacement by CML AUDIO are highly recommended or if cosmetics don't bother you ITW did make a 39 series that works just just a smaller button on the top. And don't forget to recap the mother boards on the desk where all the aux stuff lives.

 

[reverend CArter]

thankfully, all the old cut and solo buttons were already replaced with the newer ones. i am about to be starting the center section recap journey soon. we have a project thats almost finished and then its all mine till its as close to 100% as a 32 year old console can be.

i've got a guy that also worked at SSL and API coming in september to give me the rundown that has good experience with neve too he sounded super interested when i told him about the mod . and im friends with a few guys in town that worked on em one guy even owns his own vr and was one of the previous techs here.

i've been recording on this particular desk almost my whole career, its just my turn to take the tour of duty on the old neve. even when we had a full crew working every day i think we kept it at 80-90%. an unacceptably low number for the powers that be that run the place.

how extensive is the relay mod? are you planning on full conversion for your consoles? am i correct in assuming that this doesnt affect recall? the idea of pushing a button and not needing a toothpick.

 

[MATCH RECORDING]

We did ours completely a while ago. I own 2 very special VRL's there were only 6 actual Musgrave ones with all the boards etc done and the power done right. They sound very different than a stock one right out of the gate..... The bussing cards in ours also on each channel have discrete driver cards. Its very far from stock. Its pretty much an 88R and then some in sheeps clothing that you can repair actually..... Look at Neves 88R schematics and you will see many of the mods and upgrades and some not included. Hopefully your chap has experience on a VR! As like Bentley's and Rolls Royces. You need the right mechanic. Ours run at about 98/99% at all times. I also have 48 spare channels and anything else under the sun at all times avail so there is that. So a 96 and a 72. Once you swap out some of the older 5534/32's also you will notice a big difference in the top end. The problem is I think its about 40K to do a 72 channel in re-chip these days. Somewhere around there. Its not hard just patience. And only do it in the key spots. I have never really had an issue with the multi track busses. 1-4 on the channels to mix. Direct Out and the EQ Bell/Shelfs the Aux sends you can so with either 4 pole ALPS and not use the front or use the mod switch we use to drive the relay. Never really had to use the toothpicks. Always had switches. Before buying desks I made sure I had a backlog of parts for a lifetime of many desks.

 

[reverend CArter]

I wish we had that kind of parts backlog! if we had any we ran through them at this point. it was bought and installed new in 91. its hard when there's a deep lack of understanding by management on what these boards take to run but thats a whole other topic. there's at least 3 vr's in town that all have the toothpick problem so im going to see if we can make it a team effort.

 

[alp66]

We have a few thousand NEW Dialistat switches and thousands of latch pins..... But we also have a mini PCB that attaches to a relay for 4 poles or more. You had to think a little outside the box to do this. No Dialistat required....It works perfectly on our VRL and VX and this is not some cobbled together junk. I would only recommend using the relays in crucial parts the mech part that does the work can do the 2 pole on its own. For the first 2 poles is all you need for this to work as those switches don't normally have LED's... The parts to do the replacements for the 4 or more were always in front of most just nobody thought enough outside the box. I showed this to Musgrave and he about flipped out! Exact same pitch etc and the distance from PCB and switch height (sometimes a little slight pin bending to get them into the PCB). You have to do a little cutting down of the original R angle from Mill Max but no big deal. And attaching a wire or two. BUT THE CONFIDENCE THAT IT WILL ALWAYS FIRE IS KEY..... And also lowers the distortion exp on the pan switch....

So for every 2 poles extra the just add a relay the power at least on the V series is on the top two poles.

I am sure JAKOB could make a PCB and the pins for the PCB are Mill Max also.

We have a few thousand PCB's but are doing the rest of the desks little by little.

The Part Numbers for the right angle are 299-99-210-12-001800
relays are G6k-2P-DC12
The Momentary switches are TL2201OAYA
LATCHING ARE TL2201EEYA

We did every chip upgrade possible to our desks and they sound great. The only reason we didn't buy an 88R is that A.) its surface mount so there's issue one so screw repairing it easily. B.) SSL kind of was almost a decade ahead with the 9K and yet people still liked the 4K's. C.) When you open up the prints for an 88R there are many of the same from the VR. D.) There were chip upgrades but that was easily done. The switches were the hurdle. And the Burroughs meters you can use the drivers and get 101 segment LEDs....

Hi, it's been a while since you posted, I know. Can you please give details about this Relay project. I'm in trouble with Dialistats on my Neve 5114. On my desk switches and leds are powered with -15v. Will the relay you mentioned work or do I have to find another ? Any info, diagram, schematics, photos, videos, etc.
Thanks

 

[13engrsapper]

I will have to look at the model numbers on the Studer 900 series switches. I think the group switches are that type. Here is the cool thing. The PCB's come from the factory loaded with all switches (8 I think) even if the desk was set up for 4 groups. They just to not put the actuator button on them and have caps over the holes in the faceplate... but rest assured, new switches are hidden under there.. Most desks were set up to use 4, so there are 4 new unused ones in each channel of every desk ever made; lots of spares. I better double check the model numbers and placement.

 

[cariocaman85]

Hello,
Did anyone managed to rebuild/3d print the small translucent latch that breaks so often?
It is so small and yet so important for these dialistats...
Thanks!

 

[xarolium]

I was thinking the same. Why not rebuild simply the switch by a chinese manufacturer ?