It's there...

[clintrubber]

...and I've just watched it.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7d9_1206624103

A thread like this one had to pop up I guess, someone had to start it so here it is.

Let's see what the coming days will bring. I hope a fruitful discussion (and its results) but nothing else.
That 'something else' wouldn't be justified imho, I think everybody can agree that it's not provoking. At least not as provoking as our government was losing all this sleep over...

Uhmm, what else to add.... any disclaimers I forgot ? I certainly don't agree with the full extend of the mans thoughts, but do think he has the right to launch such a film as we now have here. I do think though that it'd been good to stress that this concerns a fraction/part of the islam, not the islam as a whole.

And with all respect, I also think that it's not difficult to make a few more movies like this about 'the other religions & ideologies'; I don't know of one right now that hasn't/hadn't 'issues' as well.

Wisdom to all, whatever you believe in.

 

[Ptownkid]

How do we go about discussing this topic without extreme care, lol.

Interesting film though.

 

[clintrubber]

[quote author="Ptownkid"]How do we go about discussing this topic without extreme care, lol.

Interesting film though.[/quote]
Yes, what you said, controversial topic & proceed with care. I figured it'd show up here anyway, so I thought let's do a thread.
But a few hours later now I realize I actually posted more because 'it' (the film) had now finally popped up (after much hassle & ado & debate), and not so much because what it's now actually telling.

Looking at the film itself I realize there's not much news in it, most stuff (if not all) already shown before on TV etc.

I'm curious to know how close this version is to the original plan... he'll never admit it, but who knows he has been influenced & has changed plans a bit to lessen the impact.

The Theo van Gogh film was something else; but this movie of today is more like a 'convenient' 16 minute compilation of the topic to inform visitors from out of space...

 

[Ptownkid]

At the risk of what I say not being understood right on the internet, i'll give it a stab.

I don't think that there is anything particuarily wrong with a film like this coming out, as he is not lying about any of the content. There is however a danger of producing hate in people towards Muslims, but those people would have missed the point and most likely already harbour ill feelings towards other cultures.

As for his point when it comes to the Netherlands, I completely agree and would feel the exact same way were it Canada. There is nothing wrong with having a diverse country, and allowing other cultures to prosper within it, but when it starts affecting your ideals, and affecting your government, there is a problem.

As for his dislike of islamic radicals, who use the Quran as justification to hate and kill, well....it's kind of hard to not dislike someone who wants to kill you.

 

[josh]

I thought radical christian types scared me with their aversion to logic in the way they rationalize behaviors, but these people are above and beyond that.

No one has ever been able to answer this for me becuase I dont know anyone who really understands it, and I dont either, but why are these people filled with such hate? I've always felt that man as an animal has a certain degree of malice toward other man and that causes fighting and wars and things of that nature. I still feel it all the time, but not so much as when I was 20 years old.
Christians want to assimilate everyone who isn't like them, which is annoying, sure. But these people want to kill everyone who isn't like them. Why? Does their "bible" really say these things about killing folks?

 

[radiance]

[quote author="josh"], but why are these people filled with such hate? [/quote]

It's a combination of things. The way wealth is devided in the world, ignorance, and then there is the conflict between the palestinians and the israelies which triggers a lot of anger on both sides.