Large Format Console Conundrum

[audiosway]

So, I'm looking for some help with ideas from the big boys on here. I'm a full time producer/engineer in the San Francisco Bay area. I've built quite a few projects over the years so I'm proficient enough. Not any type of electrical engineer though. I took over a studio about a year ago and it's based around a Toft ATB32. It's a decent sounding console but I consider it more of a project console. Constant maintenance with the cheap pots in it as well as it being a little too clean for what I'm after. Then there is no automation. I prefer mixing outside the box.

I'm a huge fan of the Harrison 32C sound as well as the usual Neve/API. The transformer sound. I learned years ago on an SSL 4056 and a Neotek Elite. I love the SSL for the surgical EQ and compressor on every channel. I also like the in line set up of it and the old school VCA automation.

Here is where I'm torn: if I had my choice I would build a Harrison 32C and add a simple compressor to each channel. That option isn't there since you can't even really find schemas on them and I've heard the maintenance was a beating.

I'm trying to decide if I want to buy an old SSL 4056 and build out a Neve style (1290) preamp sidecar of like 8-10 channels for my tracking. (The duality is cool but I really don't feel like dropping $150k on a console)

Or should I try to build a console to do what I want? (I have a feeling that's probably over my head)

 

[wlinart]

Here is where I'm torn: if I had my choice I would build a Harrison 32C and add a simple compressor to each channel. That option isn't there since you can't even really find schemas on them and I've heard the maintenance was a beating.

I'm trying to decide if I want to buy an old SSL 4056 and build out a Neve style (1290) preamp sidecar of like 8-10 channels for my tracking. (The duality is cool but I really don't feel like dropping $150k on a console)

Or should I try to build a console to do what I want? (I have a feeling that's probably over my head)

The schematics for the Harrison 32C are on this forum: Harrison 32C schematics
Like many said before, building a console is one of the most difficult things to do

 

[soapfoot]

If the ssl is in good condition and has been maintained, you will love it.

 

[gyraf]

Don't build a large format console. Few people survive that. Not kidding.

 

[living sounds]

Plus there is very little demand for large format consoles, so you can get them dirt cheap. Much easier even to replace every electrolytic and mechanical switch than to build it from scratch, and that's ignoring the design challenges to actually get it to work properly in terms of specifications.

I think for the mixing stage it is better to keep the coloration outside the console and add transformers, tubes etc. by inserting outboard.

 

[dreamix]

How much is a SSL 4056 these days?

 

[soapfoot]

I don’t agree that there’s “very little demand for large format consoles.”

Priced an 80 series Neve lately?

 

[JohnRoberts]

There should be a lot of used large scale consoles out in the world. Be patients and a good deal may find you.

I have known people who built their own consoles, few who built a second one....

JR

 

[audiosway]

Thanks for all of the feedback. This is pretty much confirming what I already thought. An SSL 4056 runs around $45k-$55k when you see them available. I'll plan on just waiting for one to pop up. In the meantime I'll build out a box of 1290 preamps for my sidecar.

That's kind of what I was already thinking but was just looking for some confirmation.

This is a fabulous resource and you guys are the bomb.

 

[soapfoot]

For many years our A room desk was a 4040E (with 16 channels of BAE 1084 in the racks).

We eventually moved to an 80 series Neve in each tracking room and moved the SSL to our mix room when we built it.

But in many ways the SSL was far better to work on even as a tracking desk (workflow-wise).

It’s right at home in our mix room

 

[kags]

If you want a lot of inputs, busses and channel processing, the SSL Origin is pretty nice and around 60k. You will probably still want some tracking gear and you get no DAW control or console automation.

The Neve Genesis combines great tracking and DAW control with automation and recall , but no dynamics on channels.

An API 2488 or 1608 with automation and some extra dynamic modules in the penthouse could be a good thing, too.

Daking makes great consoles and FIX audio does great stuff that is modular and scalable (Paul is around here somewhere). Desk Doctors also make a great, modern Neve-licensed desk with lots of custom options.

If you want multichannel monitoring, DAW control, dynamics and analog mixing facilities the Duality and Genesis are prob the way to go, or possibly a Euphonix?? The Duality has mediocre preamps and the durability is so-so. The Genesis sounds fantastic, but has fewer bells and some maintenance issues (but solid support).

Anything used or custom built is gonna be a continual project to keep it tip top. I have a 6000 G series and 2 9000Js at my spot and regularly work on an API1608, a Duality and a Genysis. They all have limitations and cool features. I would never buy a Duality and love tracking on the API and Neve. The older SSLs are becoming close to unserviceable without subbing many parts.

YMMV
Adam

 

[Ricardus]

Buy an API 1608 or something. Getting any used console is going to be a maintenance nightmare.

 

[audiosway]

For many years our A room desk was a 4040E (with 16 channels of BAE 1084 in the racks).

We eventually moved to an 80 series Neve in each tracking room and moved the SSL to our mix room when we built it.

But in many ways the SSL was far better to work on even as a tracking desk (workflow-wise).

It’s right at home in our mix room

I learned on a Neotek Elite then the studio upgraded to an SSL 4056G. Loved that one. The workflow is amazing on an SSL4k.

I think that's definitely the way I'll go. Especially now with the tangerine automation that you can tie into the computer as well as the Atomic power supplies.

 

[Newmarket]

Depending on where you are, and in the context of current and likely future energy costs then bear in mind the cost of running a big desk (depending on you attitude wrt keeping it powered for extended periods or turning it off and on) and any associated cooling and/or A/C costs.

 

[audiosway]

If you want a lot of inputs, busses and channel processing, the SSL Origin is pretty nice and around 60k. You will probably still want some tracking gear and you get no DAW control or console automation.

The Neve Genesis combines great tracking and DAW control with automation and recall , but no dynamics on channels.

An API 2488 or 1608 with automation and some extra dynamic modules in the penthouse could be a good thing, too.

Daking makes great consoles and FIX audio does great stuff that is modular and scalable (Paul is around here somewhere). Desk Doctors also make a great, modern Neve-licensed desk with lots of custom options.

If you want multichannel monitoring, DAW control, dynamics and analog mixing facilities the Duality and Genesis are prob the way to go, or possibly a Euphonix?? The Duality has mediocre preamps and the durability is so-so. The Genesis sounds fantastic, but has fewer bells and some maintenance issues (but solid support).

Anything used or custom built is gonna be a continual project to keep it tip top. I have a 6000 G series and 2 9000Js at my spot and regularly work on an API1608, a Duality and a Genysis. They all have limitations and cool features. I would never buy a Duality and love tracking on the API and Neve. The older SSLs are becoming close to unserviceable without subbing many parts.

YMMV
Adam

And that just laid out my biggest fear. The older SSLs and parts.I'd be looking for a 4k. The 9000s sound great but are power hogs from everyone I've talked to. The Duality seems cool but I haven't seen anything that would make me want to pay that much for one.

How is the automation on the API1608 and 2488?

 

[audiosway]

Depending on where you are, and in the context of current and likely future energy costs then bear in mind the cost of running a big desk (depending on you attitude wrt keeping it powered for extended periods or turning it off and on) and any associated cooling and/or A/C costs.

That's why I don't want an SSL 9000. The electricity for that beast would kill me.

 

[AlexK_NL]

So, I'm looking for some help with ideas from the big boys on here. I'm a full time producer/engineer in the San Francisco Bay area. I've built quite a few projects over the years so I'm proficient enough. Not any type of electrical engineer though. I took over a studio about a year ago and it's based around a Toft ATB32. It's a decent sounding console but I consider it more of a project console. Constant maintenance with the cheap pots in it as well as it being a little too clean for what I'm after. Then there is no automation. I prefer mixing outside the box.

I'm a huge fan of the Harrison 32C sound as well as the usual Neve/API. The transformer sound. I learned years ago on an SSL 4056 and a Neotek Elite. I love the SSL for the surgical EQ and compressor on every channel. I also like the in line set up of it and the old school VCA automation.

Here is where I'm torn: if I had my choice I would build a Harrison 32C and add a simple compressor to each channel. That option isn't there since you can't even really find schemas on them and I've heard the maintenance was a beating.

I'm trying to decide if I want to buy an old SSL 4056 and build out a Neve style (1290) preamp sidecar of like 8-10 channels for my tracking. (The duality is cool but I really don't feel like dropping $150k on a console)

Or should I try to build a console to do what I want? (I have a feeling that's probably over my head)

Maybe a Midas console is something for you? Check out Midas XL3 or XL4. I might know one for sale.

 

[soapfoot]

I learned on a Neotek Elite then the studio upgraded to an SSL 4056G. Loved that one. The workflow is amazing on an SSL4k.

I think that's definitely the way I'll go. Especially now with the tangerine automation that you can tie into the computer as well as the Atomic power supplies.

We have the tangerine system and it’s really a game changer. Feel free to DM if you have any questions

 

[audiosway]

Maybe a Midas console is something for you? Check out Midas XL3 or XL4. I might know one for sale.

I appreciate it but I haven't really liked the Midas console for some reason. Not sure if it's the workflow or what. They are super clean sounding. I know that much. I like to be able to push the board. I'm a huge fan of color and dirt. Probably why I'm not too keen on the newer SSL stuff. I love the 4000 series. But, that's essentially what I started on too so there is that.

We have the tangerine system and it’s really a game changer. Feel free to DM if you have any questions

I've been incredibly excited about that. I'll definitely hit you up once I get closer to buying. I saw some demos and it blew me away.

 

[kags]

Plus the 4000/6000/8000 can be worked on while the 9000s are nearing EOL and even SSL won’t support them. 9000 sounds great, but is a tough one to keep alive.