Looking for console specs, especially SSL

[living sounds]

I've googled high and low but couldn't find any info. I'm interested in THD+N, crosstalk, frequency response etc. for some widely used consoles, especially SSL 4000 series.  Service manuals availible online usually only have the schematics, and brochures don't mention specs.

Thanks!

 

[gyraf]

I don't think they ever published full-system specs - they were never in the ballgame of selling-by-specifications.

You would try one out, and decide if you liked the sonic imprint.

A bit like the world-famous Gyraf Audio, actually

Jakob E.

 

[living sounds]

That's interesting, thanks Jakob.

I would have thought SSL with their transformerless 5534-based signal paths would have published specs. Isn't there anything in the service manuals for techs to make sure the console is operating as intended?

I ultimately agree that the specs have little to do with how (subjectively) musical a console ultimately sounds. But I was hoping to glean a little insight by looking at the specs.

 

[ruffrecords]

Surely they must at least have had an internal spec to test to in production?

Neve always published specs but that was probably initiated by their sales to broadcasters who would insist on them. As far as I know, SSL never sold to the broadcast industry.

Cheers

Ian

 

[kante1603]

Hi,


I can confirm what Jakob said.We had two of the (more rare) 5000 Series at my work place.
I have all manuals here at home,so all schematics,connector cross references,Toral Recall & Instant Reset Manual,
and some spefically made for us as a client.Have never seen any of those specs from them.Consoles in this range were bto,maybe that's why.I remember that after installations measurements where made by an external company.All specs had to meet or exceed the german "IRT-Pflichtenheft" and several specs after "DIN" norms.
So technically seen all at a high german broadcast level.
That was back in 1987/88.


Hope to have helped,


best regards,


Udo.

 

[kante1603]

As far as I know, SSL never sold to the broadcast industry.

Hello Ian,


excuse me for putting this right,but they certainly did.At least here in germany.
After we bought the first two 5000 series consoles the BR (Bayerischer Rundfunk) saw them at my work place and bought several (don't know the exact count).
The BR is the major broadcast company here in the german south and is run by the state of bavaria.


Best regards,


Udo.

 

[living sounds]

So has anyone here checked on with an AP?  What can you expect in terms of THD at 1k and 10k from line input to output with faders set to unity gain? Dynamics and EQ set to bypass, with and without VCA?

 

[plimousse]

Hi,

Please, find the following

Appendix B — 611G I/O Module Specifications

Microphone Amplifier (82E291)
Gain:        Variable from +4dB to +70dB in 6dB steps
Input Impedance:  1.54kΩ
Headroom: > +24dBu @ +4dB gain, at onset of clipping
> +27dB @ all other gain settings
Frequency Response: +0.0dB/-0.4dB from20Hz to 20kHz
Equivalent Input Noise: < -95dBu @ minimum gain
                                                      < -127dBu @ maximum gain

Line Amplifier (82E291)
Gain:          -20dB to +20dB continuously variable with detent at unity gain
Input Impedance: > 30kΩBalanced
                                        > 20kΩUnbalanced
Headroom: > +26.5dB at onset of clipping
Frequency Response:  +0.0dB/-0.3dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz
Equivalent Input Noise: < -95dBu

Cheers

 

[living sounds]

Thanks, but no distortion specs either. Today that's what everyone is obsessed with, didn't it matter in the 80s and 90s in a console?

 

[gyraf]

A rough estimate would be that distortion is dominated by the VCA  - DBX202c for Channel, and DBX 2151 (or Aphex1537) for monitor.

Jakob E.

 

[ruffrecords]

As far as I know, SSL never sold to the broadcast industry.

Hello Ian,


excuse me for putting this right,but they certainly did.At least here in germany.
After we bought the first two 5000 series consoles the BR (Bayerischer Rundfunk) saw them at my work place and bought several (don't know the exact count).
The BR is the major broadcast company here in the german south and is run by the state of bavaria.


Best regards,


Udo.

Thanks UDO. In the UK, the IBC published specifications for broadcast equipment including mixers. I presume there is a DIN standard for broadcast equipment in Germany.

By the way, Bavaria is my favourite region of Germany. I have fond memories of wild boar and asparagus soup.

Cheers

Ian

 

[[silent:arts]]

As far as I know, SSL never sold to the broadcast industry.

Last year the rbb (Rundfunk Berlin Brandenburg) bought one CS200 and one 72 channel Duality ;-)
Even no schematics or real tech docs anymore.
However, since the trainer for the Duality recognized my [silent:arts] shirt he showed and explained us some schematic on his computer. Nice and competent guy, and a member here  ;D

The BR is the major broadcast company here in the german south and is run by the state of bavaria.

Udo, the BR is not run by the state of bavaria. We need to be independent from government and politics.
At least we should be, it is not Reichsrundfunk anymore ;-)

 

[kante1603]

Udo, the BR is not run by the state of bavaria. We need to be independent from government and politics.
At least we should be, it is not Reichsrundfunk anymore ;-)

Got it ;D ,


thx Volker,


cheers,


Udo.

Edit:Correction on my side:The BR is a member of the union of  broadcast companies under public law,consisting of 9 members in germany.Hope I've translated it correct,excuse me confusing you.
Still a big broadcast company of course.

 

[JohnRoberts]

So has anyone here checked on with an AP?  What can you expect in terms of THD at 1k and 10k from line input to output with faders set to unity gain? Dynamics and EQ set to bypass, with and without VCA?

When trying to measure a console with out comparable specs, I would suggest measuring several channels to determine a typical performance baseline.  Measuring distortion at a channel insert "should" be cleaner that through the bus amp. If not determine why, etc.

Look for outliers..

Rinse and repeat until there are no outliers.

JR

 

[Walrus]

Just found this......

 

[living sounds]

Wow, thank you very much, Kevin!

That's very interesting indeed. 

 

[ricardo]

In my time (early 80's), the spec was always from the Broadcast organisations .. eg BBC or IBA.

This always looks easy until you read the fine print which will say all operating conditions.

This meant for a 72 channel desk, chaining all 72 channels would still have to meet this spec.  Then there were the arguments over 'all operating conditions'.

Difficult to meet even 0.1% THD1k with 72 channels of HF EQ turned fully up.  8)

In those days, the BBC would only consider desks from Calrec, Neve (and sometimes SSL because of their automation).  I think a bit later, Amek broke into this select circle via desks for local radio.

 

[living sounds]

In my time (early 80's), the spec was always from the Broadcast organisations .. eg BBC or IBA.

This always looks easy until you read the fine print which will say all operating conditions.

This meant for a 72 channel desk, chaining all 72 channels would still have to meet this spec.  Then there were the arguments over 'all operating conditions'.

Difficult to meet even 0.1% THD1k with 72 channels of HF EQ turned fully up.  8)

In those days, the BBC would only consider desks from Calrec, Neve (and sometimes SSL because of their automation).  I think a bit later, Amek broke into this select circle via desks for local radio.

That's nuts! 72 channels chained with all HF EQ  cranked up would just be very ugly souding hf noise at max amplitude, wouldn't it?

 

[ricardo]

That's nuts! 72 channels chained with all HF EQ  cranked up would just be very ugly souding hf noise at max amplitude, wouldn't it?

Hence the arguments  8)