Manley factory tour

[gyraf]

Manley - great factory tour:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AWUTQNDt3hU

/Jakob E.

 

[Bo Deadly]

I think it's funny that they're pushing SMPS as audibly better and that "we picked it every time on blind listening tests". I have to call BS. I can only guess that they're just trying to flip the SMPS naysayers. SMPS is obviously better for numerous technical reasons and not just noise. But they probably should have just said that briefly as if it's understood and move on instead of trying to spin it.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I think it's funny that they're pushing SMPS as audibly better and that "we picked it every time on blind listening tests". I have to call BS. I can only guess that they're just trying to flip the SMPS naysayers. SMPS is obviously better for numerous technical reasons and not just noise. But they probably should have just said that briefly as if it's understood and move on instead of trying to spin it.

I know the complete back story on the development and testing of this PSU. I am close to everyone involved and was briefly involved in some of the blind testing.  Everything that is claimed is true, there is no spin, just lots of rigorous engineering.

Edit - I just rewatched that section of the video again and the actual testing done during the original design and rollout out of this supply was much more comprehensive that Eve-Anna mentions in the video.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Just goes to show their audiophool roots.

Cheers

Ian

Edited....

 

[Bo Deadly]

I know the complete back story on the development and testing of this PSU. I am close to everyone involved and was briefly involved in some of the blind testing.  Everything that is claimed is true, there is no spin, just lots of rigorous engineering.

Just to be clear, I'm not knocking the gear. I'm an SMPS fan all day. I just doubt that they could hear a difference. You could probably see 60 Hz in an analyzer but a good linear supply should be perfectly quiet to even the best ears. Otherwise, are they saying that their gear w/ linear supplies are inferior? Oops.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Just to be clear, I'm not knocking the gear. I'm an SMPS fan all day. I just doubt that they could hear a difference. You could probably see 60 Hz in an analyzer but a good linear supply should be perfectly quiet to even the best ears. Otherwise, are they saying that their gear w/ linear supplies are inferior? Oops.

I heard a difference.  Is that good enough for you?

There's so much more I could say but I'd be betraying confidences.  All I can ask is that you take it from me, a long standing member here that some very significant engineering time went into this supply and initial testing.  You're intuition that this is just marketing hooey is wrong.

I get the cynicism, we seeing marketing B.S. every day from pro audio companies.  Perhaps even Manley are guilty of it at times elsewhere, but the claims made in this video are not wrong.

 

[Bo Deadly]

All I can ask is that you take it from me, a long standing member here that some very significant engineering time went into this supply and initial testing.

I never said anything negative about the new supply. But it is curious that you read my comments that way.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I never said anything negative about the new supply. But it is curious that you read my comments that way.

Man you're infuriating.  I never implied that you said anything negative about the supply...

I think it's funny that they're pushing SMPS as audibly better and that "we picked it every time on blind listening tests". I have to call BS. I can only guess that they're just trying to flip the SMPS naysayers. SMPS is obviously better for numerous technical reasons and not just noise. But they probably should have just said that briefly as if it's understood and move on instead of trying to spin it.

Let me be even more specific.

What EveAnna said re the supply in the video is not spin. Her story is meant to illustrate a  brief part of what was a long design and testing process and then more work integrating the new supply into their existing product range.

As I said, your cynicism about this is understandable.  It juts happens that in this case it's misplaced.  I have made the same mistake in the past with other manufacturers.

 

[pucho812]

The manley factory is even more impressive in person and the video tour does not do it justice.

As for for the SMSP, I can attest that they did do their homework and it was put through it's paces before unleashed to the mass public.  Any claims made may feel like the audiophool spin but I am sure they are made  with actual evidence to back up the claim. While we all can scoff at the we heard a difference remark that is often thrown around, I am sure there  is reason beyond saying it to the claim. Perhaps ask for the AP measurements of a unit with and with the SMPS? if  you are curious.

The rest, talk among yourself...

 

[kambo]

no jealousy please  ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

 

[ruairioflaherty]

I believe there's a noticeable difference in the sound with the new power supply design.  Did you like the difference Ruairi?  Can you describe it words?

Adam

It's probably 6 years since I listened to the tests so I can't describe it now but there was a clear difference, and yes, everyone involved preferred the new PSU.  It's an excellent design.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

I heard a difference.  Is that good enough for you?

OK, I believe you. So, this difference, is it better? I would tend to think if you think the smps sounds better that's because something was wrong with the linear ps.
Don't orget that, in good tradition, most tube equipment does not have regulated PSU's, so it is very likely that comparing them with smps, which are intrinsically regulated, would show some difference.
We are talking about low level signals, not power amps, right? And mostly class A, where the current is almost constant.
Some of the arguments, like the absence of 50/60Hz vibration in the transformer, are not very convincing. There are thousands pieces of linear PSU gear that don't have significant mechanical noise. And I know many smps that actually produce mechanical noise, in addition to all sorts of EMI/RFI and poor regulation. They should not be considered as representative of good design.

There's so much more I could say but I'd be betraying confidences.  All I can ask is that you take it from me, a long standing member here that some very significant engineering time went into this supply and initial testing.

You are taking it too personally. Nobody claimed that this move has not been thoroughfully evaluated and tested. The market, and particularly audiophools, are so reluctant about smps that Manley had to be very exacting in order to convince. The many advantages of universal smps are undisputable.

 

[ruairioflaherty]

OK, I believe you. So, this difference, is it better? I would tend to think if you think the smps sounds better that's because something was wrong with the linear ps.
Don't orget that, in good tradition, most tube equipment does not have regulated PSU's, so it is very likely that comparing them with smps, which are intrinsically regulated, would show some difference.
We are talking about low level signals, not power amps, right? And mostly class A, where the current is almost constant.
Some of the arguments, like the absence of 50/60Hz vibration in the transformer, are not very convincing. There are thousands pieces of linear PSU gear that don't have significant mechanical noise. And I know many smps that actually produce mechanical noise, in addition to all sorts of EMI/RFI and poor regulation. They should not be considered as representative of good design.
You are taking it too personally. Nobody claimed that this move has not been thoroughfully evaluated and tested. The market, and particularly audiophools, are so reluctant about smps that Manley had to be very exacting in order to convince. The many advantages of universal smps are undisputable.

My only point in this whole thread is that EveAnna's claims of the superiority of the supply were not just marketing hyperbole.

I howl about audio marketing B.S. everyday and I completely understand why people would jump on her words in this interview, especially as EveAnna seems to be a popular target here.  I was just trying to communicate that knowing the complete arc of how and why this PSU design came to be, the design brief, the challenges and the outcomes that EveAnna's claims are not wide of the mark.

There's so much I cannot say and I'm not about to throw the old PSUs under the bus but this new supply really wins in every way.  If I was designing a tube product in the morning I would use this supply were it available.

Of course there are lots of products with linear supplies that work perfectly well (including several that I own), and I have zero interest in a linear vs switched argument.

As for taking it personally I don't like to see a friend fat shamed and years of work on this project go misunderstood.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

The only person associated with Manley Labs. who ever spouted audiophoolery nonsense was the late David Manley.  Without doubt, he could be 'full-of-it' at times. 

I've known EveAnna since the very early days of the company, I stayed at her house on occasions,  and she is as straight a shooter as you'd ever hope to meet.  She turned that company around after David left for France. 
 
The factory really is impressive in person and as close to an all in-house facility as I've ever seen in Pro Audio manufacturing.  At one time, they even had their own $1,000,000  CNC machine in house. 

The SMPS they're using specs out very well btw.

Thanks for posting Jakob

 

[ruffrecords]

You are better than this Ian.  I understand your loyalty to David Manley but shaming people for weight gain (or not) has no place on this forum.

Youi are right. I apologise and will removed the post.

Cheers

Ian

 

[ruairioflaherty]

Youi are right. I apologise and will removed the post.

Cheers

Ian

Thanks Ian, I've removed my quoting of it too.

 

[abbey road d enfer]

The only person associated with Manley Labs. who ever spouted audiophoolery nonsense was the late David Manley. 

I hope you have noticed that I didn't suggest Manley was nurturing audiophoolery; I mentioned the unfortunate fact they have to take into account the fact that most of their HiFi customer base and a large fraction of pro audio operators, who should know better, are possessed by it.
Even the more respectable manufacturers brands (SSL, Genelec, UA, Mc Intosh, almost all mic mfgrs) have to live by it.

 

[volker]

The only thing about her presentation that could possibly rub me the wrong way is the perceived message they have something new and unprecedented on hand with a switching power supply. That's the equivalent of a car sales person explaining how there are now electric cars on the market, you probably haven't heard about that yet, you should check that out. But then again the target audience probably isn't electronics people.

 

[Winston OBoogie]

I hope you have noticed that I didn't suggest Manley was nurturing audiophoolery;

Yep, I did indeed notice   
I was responding to another member's post in which this was mentioned,  although the post has since been removed so...  all good.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I hope you have noticed that I didn't suggest Manley was nurturing audiophoolery; I mentioned the unfortunate fact they have to take into account the fact that most of their HiFi customer base and a large fraction of pro audio operators, who should know better, are possessed by it.
Even the more respectable manufacturers brands (SSL, Genelec, UA, Mc Intosh, almost all mic mfgrs) have to live by it.

+1

JR