pucho812
Well-known member
Anyone know of a place to get 500 series metal work for modules?
Looking to make some 500 series stuff and my hold up is metalwork…
Looking to make some 500 series stuff and my hold up is metalwork…
Metal work for 500 series
- Thread starter pucho812
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
Are you thinking of the L bracket specifically? Frank at frontpanels.de can make them for you with whatever drills/cuts you want, and I believe CAPI also offers un-drilled L brackets for DIY (drill it yourself!). As for front panels, of course, you would get those done for 500 series just like a 19" unit, but using the format's dimensions.
pucho812
Well-known member
both actually. But that is a good bit of information. thank you
Dimensions are available from VPR Alliance. Hope that helps!
john12ax7
Well-known member
If you are going to NAMM there are usually a couple booths of metal fab to talk to.
And MD&M West will be in Anaheim a couple weeks after. Lots of shops there, some that will do 100 pcs. Others will assume you mean 100k when you say 100.
So a lot depends on quantities needed. For a few faceplates it is often easier and cheaper to use front panel express.
And MD&M West will be in Anaheim a couple weeks after. Lots of shops there, some that will do 100 pcs. Others will assume you mean 100k when you say 100.
So a lot depends on quantities needed. For a few faceplates it is often easier and cheaper to use front panel express.
MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
[Anyone know of a place to get 500 series metal work for modules?] -- Essentially, -- ANY -- local metal-shop should be able to fabricate whatever it is that you are looking to have made. You don't need any kind of specialized place to have a 500-Series "L" bracket or front-panel made. Whatever you need to have done is all basic and rudimentary sheet-metal stuff!!!
[Looking to make some 500 series stuff and my hold up is metalwork] -- Give me a "detailed" sketch of whatever it is that you're looking for somewhat similar to what you see in my images #5 and #11. Then, I can provide you with what you need.
>> I don't find creating and designing of any kind of bracket, chassis, enclosure or panel metal-work to be of any problem!!!
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soulsonic
Member
I recently made some front panels for some DIY 500 modules I'm working on. I used a laser cutter to make them from acrylic. Still working out some details for how to get them to look the way I want, but first attempt was very promising. Only cost me pennies in materials and about an hour of my time. I am fortunate to have access to a large laser cutter at a university maker space, and I'm now learning its nuances.
For the L bracket, I'm going to likely cut it with a stomp shear and then hand bend it. They have a CNC plasma cutter there, but I haven't learned it how to use it yet, and it might actually be faster to do something like this by hand.
You might want to check out Ponoko for having things made. I put some files up there to get quotes and the prices for front panels made of acrylic were very much less than Front Panel Express. They do metal too
For the L bracket, I'm going to likely cut it with a stomp shear and then hand bend it. They have a CNC plasma cutter there, but I haven't learned it how to use it yet, and it might actually be faster to do something like this by hand.
You might want to check out Ponoko for having things made. I put some files up there to get quotes and the prices for front panels made of acrylic were very much less than Front Panel Express. They do metal too
following for L bracket info. For my 500 series units, I actually use aluminum PCBs for the front panels but it is a sort of janky process, especially with heavier modules with transformers and such. I know Jeff sells blank L brackets, but custom drilled at an affordable pricepoint would be ideal.
soulsonic
Member
Here is an idea I have:
Laser cut from 1/8" acrylic. The two bracket strips would slot into the front panel and the board would be bolted directly to them without standoffs. If my measurements are correct, it should precisely align with the card slot. The bracket strips extend out the front panel and provide convenient pull tabs so you can extract the module without having to yank on the knobs.
The biggest challenge I see with this idea is stability: I fear it may want to flop around, or the bracket slot may be a weak point that might snap off easily if abused. It might be necessary to add small metal angle brackets at the joint to reinforce it, especially if the PCB is bearing heavy transformers. The main advantages I'm seeing with this idea are the ease of aligning the PCB with the slot and the bonus pull tabs. I'm going to give it a try.
Laser cut from 1/8" acrylic. The two bracket strips would slot into the front panel and the board would be bolted directly to them without standoffs. If my measurements are correct, it should precisely align with the card slot. The bracket strips extend out the front panel and provide convenient pull tabs so you can extract the module without having to yank on the knobs.
The biggest challenge I see with this idea is stability: I fear it may want to flop around, or the bracket slot may be a weak point that might snap off easily if abused. It might be necessary to add small metal angle brackets at the joint to reinforce it, especially if the PCB is bearing heavy transformers. The main advantages I'm seeing with this idea are the ease of aligning the PCB with the slot and the bonus pull tabs. I'm going to give it a try.
soulsonic
Member
I just did a quick quote for the above design at Ponoko, and it says a quantity of 10 would cost $58.61, plus setup and shipping. Grand total says $79.61.
That's less than $8 per module for both a front panel and bracket. Haven't seen anything cheaper. Price will be a little higher if you add more holes and text, etc... but not very much more.
And if you're completely put off by acrylic, the grand total for quoting the same design cut from 0.126" aluminum was $117.69 for quantity of 10. That's less than $12 for each module. Still a crazy deal compared to everything else I've seen. Of course you would need to insulate the board with fish paper or something if you use metal brackets - or you could recalculate the slot to account for some nylon washers - or take the metal brackets into account when designing the PCB so no components would touch it. Lots of ways to make this work.
That's less than $8 per module for both a front panel and bracket. Haven't seen anything cheaper. Price will be a little higher if you add more holes and text, etc... but not very much more.
And if you're completely put off by acrylic, the grand total for quoting the same design cut from 0.126" aluminum was $117.69 for quantity of 10. That's less than $12 for each module. Still a crazy deal compared to everything else I've seen. Of course you would need to insulate the board with fish paper or something if you use metal brackets - or you could recalculate the slot to account for some nylon washers - or take the metal brackets into account when designing the PCB so no components would touch it. Lots of ways to make this work.
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MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
[Here is an idea I have] -- Can you both create and provide me with a set of detailed mechanical drawings calling out -- ALL -- of the dimensions shown here in your idea? Having them will then allow me to create a 3D CAD-model of your idea for further "checking out". Can you do that???
Off-hand.....my gut-instincts tell me that your idea won't work because there isn't anything shown here to both support and prevent any back-and-forth movement in the "X" direction of your "Side Brackets". Once I have a 3D CAD-model made, I could then show you a couple of possible solutions. But, "One Way Or Another" (Blondie), your "Side Brackets" are going to need to be held firmly in place.
In addition, are the slots in your front-panel and all of the other associated mechanical details dimensioned "just so", so the PCB fits exactly into the EDAC connector? If that single detail isn't "dead-nuts on", then the whole idea becomes instantly worthless. Just sayin'.....
Provide some detailed mechanical dimensions and we'll see where things go from there, OK???.....
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soulsonic
Member
I had to edit the design. The slot was too close to the center to measure correctly, I moved it over.
The drawings from API say the center edge of the board should be 0.438" from the center of the panel to line up correctly with the connector. Assuming a 1/16" thick PCB, it should line up right with the dimensions shown here:
I had said that I figure the weakest point is that they might want to move, but that is only when it is loose outside the chassis. When it is installed in the 500 chassis, it will all be held tightly by the mounted front panel on one end and the EDAC connector on the other.
The drawings from API say the center edge of the board should be 0.438" from the center of the panel to line up correctly with the connector. Assuming a 1/16" thick PCB, it should line up right with the dimensions shown here:
I had said that I figure the weakest point is that they might want to move, but that is only when it is loose outside the chassis. When it is installed in the 500 chassis, it will all be held tightly by the mounted front panel on one end and the EDAC connector on the other.
a soBer Newt
Well-known member
Here is a quick fusion mock up of a basic 500 series module with. L Bracket could be bent and .125 in height hardware inserted from send cut send .048 1008 CRS.
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MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
Well.....apparently my definition of -- ALL -- dimensions and your definition of -- ALL -- dimensions seems to differ by quite a bit!!! When I had requested that you provide me with -- ALL -- of the mechanical detail dimensions of your "panel idea", I literally meant for you to provide me with -- ALL -- of the dimensions necessary in order for me to exactly create the images you have posted. Since you didn't do that as I had requested, I have either "second-guessed" what some of your missing dimensions might be or, I just left those geometries out of my CAD-model entirely. It is up to you on whether or not you wish to provide -- COMPLETE -- information in order for me to work with your idea or not.
In any case.....with that said.....here is what I have created so far and I only included what I felt like including that at least had some dimensions provided:
Now.....while I certainly do recognize and understand that you are not either a "Mechanical Designer" or a "Mechanical Engineer", there is one fundamental and important item that you need to be both aware of and understand and that is.....TOLERANCES!!!
In easy terms for you to easily understand.....you basically cannot have two pieces of something that are to mate with one another and have them both be the exact same dimension!!! >> PERIOD!!! << As relating to your idea here, if your "PCB Bracket" is going to be 0.125" thick, then the slot in your front-panel is going to need to be -- just a hair -- larger/wider in order for the bracket to be able to fit into the slot. HOW MUCH LARGER??? Well.....that depends upon a variety of factors, all of which needs to be considered, in order to determine what the slot width dimension should be.
And, in direct relation to the item of "Tolerances".....you are showing your front-panel width dimension as being 1.50" wide. But, in reality, that's not the actual width dimension!!! Shown below is the 500-Series front-panel width dimension from RADIAL Engineering as being 1.488" wide:
Now.....I personally disagree with this dimension for two reasons: 1) Sheet-metal fabricators can typically hold a sheet-metal part outside dimension to TWO-PLACES, which would make this dimension to be 1.49", which is actually a too large of a dimension, and 2) RADIAL is under-sizing their panel width by only 0.012" (0.006" X2) overall, which is a really, really tight tolerance. In other words, the typical standard tolerance for -- rack-mount -- equipment is 0.030" (0.015" X2). Meaning, a 1U rack-panel height of 1.75" is actually 1.72" on a piece of real-world equipment. So, with all of this blabbering said.....the 3D CAD-model I have created of your front-panel idea is actually -- 1.47" wide -- and -- 5.22" high -- basically adhering to the EIA-310D "Rack Equipment Standards" so it can very easily fit within a 500-Series Lunchbox without any interferences!!! And, ya gotta keep in mind.....I have been designing all manner of "rack-mount chassis" for a lot longer than you have even been alive!!! So.....there's that.....
The #4-40 countersunk machine-screw holes and the placement of the two front-panel slots are dimensioned per your drawing.
So, now.....finish-up dimensioning your idea drawings and then I can finish-up creating your 3D CAD-model.
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soulsonic
Member
I appreciate your help and work, but I don't see why a 3D model is even necessary. It's not needed to fabricate the pieces, so I don't understand the exercise here.
That is how I am considering doing my next run, and maybe setting it up for some sort of those multi-sided cube nut things that would sandwich between the two boards and likewise bolt into the front panel for extra support.
if using a 1.2mm PCB, would be looking at like 6.74mm from the furthest vertical edge of the front panel, so two 1.2mm PCBs like Bobby's setup would allow for what, like 5.5mm ish of clearance in between the two boards? So the cube nut would probably have to be no more than 5mm tall for it to work. I found some on Aliexpress with the smallest dimension being 6mm, but didn't dig deep. If a 5mm one exists, would probably be like M2 holes or something.
It is difficult to explain 3D concepts via text lol.
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MidnightArrakis
Well-known member
[I don't see why a 3D model is even necessary] -- Using 3D allows you to "see" not only how your design is going to fit together and look like , but also to check for any interferences and misalignments there may be between the various different parts -- BEFORE -- you have any piece parts made. However, since you don't "see" how 3D-design is a useful tool and you apparently already have all of the design details worked out.....I'll just mosey on down-the-road.
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