Metallica Ride the Lighting compressor on guitar tracks?

[12afael]

I was trying to recreate the guitar sound of ride the lighting. There is some information directly from Flemming Rasmussen about the amp rig, some TC parametric eq, JCM800, marshall cabinet with Celestion 65 (creamback?) , Shure SM7, apex EQF2 and Trident A-series console.

I found the isolated tracks (Who knows the source... Guitar Hero???) two things called my attention the amount of Room in the sound and the amount of compression.
I´m not sure if this compression is actually in the album. the mastering compression could have tamed the pumping or this compression was just added for the person who extracted the track, I don´t know. I tried some compressors and I think it help with the articulation of the sound in songs like creeping death. it help to get the sound with less distortion from the amp.

This was 1984 the list of compressors is not so big. Here was the Urei 1176, La2a, La3a, DBX160, Fairchild, Neve 2254, Siemens, Neumann and of course some others. I wonder what would be your guess on what compressor was. Maybe one of our Danish friends have more info?

 

[TheJames]

One note on Metallica and compression on guitars...There's an interview with Bob Rock where he discusses that Papa Het was adamant that there would be NO compression on the guitars. This seems to imply that somewhere along the way Hetfield had a bad experience with compression on guitars. I think he really wanted to hear/feel the chug of the guitar when he palm muted and I think most engineers were trying to squash that swing in the LF to keep the mix stable.

As for the compressor used...The release seems a bit sluggish...Perhaps a La3a?

 

[ubxf]

Don't forget the Neve 3609 "metal knob" original discrete compressor

 

[Bo Deadly]

Compressor? No. I don't hear that at all. Metallica is all notch filter. Just crank the amp into a cabinet, mic it, feed that into a parametric EQ that allows for a really deep notch (12dB+) and a Q control. Play around with the frequency and Q until you get that sound. But if you really want to nail it, I think you'll probably have to really crank a big amp in a dead room. There's also a bit of reverb going on too.

 

[Matador]

I think the setup was an OD in front of the Marshall, with mids boosted and bass/treble cut (in the preamp), but the opposite in the effects loop (mid cut, low end boost) - much like the Mesa architecture they ended up moving to in later albums.

Such a setup is already going to be quite compressed, and if you back the mike off a few feet in a reasonable room I bet it would get really close.

 

[12afael]

I think the video I posted had some extra compression going on, probably from guitar hero. I just found a better version without the extreme compression.
I guess that solve it...

 

[Rusan]

A piece of the puzzle might be the EMG 81 pickups they used. They just naturally sound more compressed (almost like an unobtrusive, very subtle DynaComp kinda sound) and MUCH tighter on palm mutes than passive pickups. They're not actually *that* compressed; it's only partially an actual dynamics compression and the rest is a tonal coloration. Listen to the early Stryper albums; same EMGs except through Mesa Dual Recs, and that same "tight compression sound FX" thang happening.

I have a Carvin V220 that I bought in the 80s and have EMGs in. I've put a million miles on that guitar with both EMGs and passives, so I know the "EMG effect" well. Definitely a very different sound from passive pups.

 

[12afael]

Yes I love and hate emgs, they are great for live playing but I prefer passives for recording.

But on ride the lightning James was not using emgs yet. I think it was some Gibson or Seymour Duncan(invader?) pick up. He was not even using the explorer yet if I remember correctly. Possibly the Electra flying V.

 

[Rusan]

I stand corrected: I thought for sure he'd started using EMGs by the time that record was made. There's *something* going on that sounds like that EMG tone and compression thing, not to mention the super-tight palm mute chunk, so I assumed that's what it was.

 

[Martan]

I could be wrong, but it looks like two RAT (or some similar form factor) pedals in series on top of that amp. Not sure what the orange pedal is, but you could get a ton of compression from the pedals before it hit the amp.

 

[Bo Deadly]

I could be wrong, but it looks like two RAT (or some similar form factor) pedals in series on top of that amp.

I think those are two TC Electronic Dual Parametric Equalizers.


As stated previously, IMO the RtL (and MoP) sounds are largely mid-scoop after some variant of JCM amp.

But that pic is probably just their practice rig. The notch is too well defined in the recordings. If it were applied before the amp, the amp would add all sorts of mid harmonics. So it sound like it was applied after the amp. So after the mic.

Mid-scoop is a very popular component of metal sounds. Sabbath is all mid-scoop. The old Crate GX amps had a "shape" control that was just a mid-scoop control.

 

[john12ax7]

There was also a lot of mid scoop on the mixing board.

 

[btyreman]

you will need EMG pickups for that sound and a very loud stack and 4 x 12 miced up with MD421 and sm57's, this should get you close.

 

[living sounds]

Don't forget that Youtube adds its own compression.

 

[Bo Deadly]

I believe in the interview when Fleming Rasmussen discusses recording RTL, the EQ placement was a rack EQ in between the head and the cabinet?

While it is possible to create an LC notch filter load using an 8 ohm resistor, small inductor and large cap to create a huge notch that is highly unlikely. I've never heard of such a thing.

Otherwise, a conventional EQ will not work unless it was sandwiched between a dummy load and a power amp.

Using a separate power amp would be a good way to get a really good metal notch and it would make a little more sense since the player would be able to hear the notch which seems to me would be kind of important.

 

[Matador]

While it is possible to create an LC notch filter load using an 8 ohm resistor, small inductor and large cap to create a huge notch that is highly unlikely. I've never heard of such a thing.

Like I said above, it was more likely in the effects loop of the amp.

 

[Bo Deadly]

Like I said above, it was more likely in the effects loop of the amp.

Could be. But the power amp is a major source of distortion which will create a bunch of harmonics in the notch.

One thing I know for sure is that when I think I something for sure, I don't.

This is something that would require trying different rigs and playing and listening.

 

[Baderjoe]

I would be concerned about an LC filter strapped to the output of the guitar head. The ringing of the LC circuit may cause high enough spikes to damage the output transformer in the amp. I wouldn’t recommend notching this way.

 

[Bo Deadly]

I don't see how a series R / shunt LC would cause ringing. But the impedance will go high at the notch frequency so a pure tone at the notch freq might not be good for the tubes.

 

[12afael]

there Flemming comment about the use of studio EQ on the loop of the Mesa amps on Master of Puppets. there is no loop on the JCM800 on Ride the lightning so I don´t think he use one on the amp itself.

I´m getting close to the sound I will try to record something soon.