Mic angles - Mic positions

[EnJeanEar]

Hi all.
So, awhile ago I came across a recording class in which the author, amongst other things said the following:
1. The mic's best position is perpendicular to the source (which of course he said is next to impossible to set up).
2. The next best thing is the mic angled at 45 degrees to the source (pic 1).
3. The mics should all be positioned in axes parallel or perpendicular to each other (pic 2).
4. If possible and unless you know what you are doing, avoid eq while tracking as it may usher in phase issues.

I tried this approach and got to say I was stunned(!!!) by how much better the sound was and how much clearer individual parts sounded, yet with a clear and coherent stereo image.

So, two main questions popped right after:
1. Why angle the individual mic at 90 or 45 and not just any random angle? Why is it that these work the best?
2. Why position the mics in the fixed axis fashion? Why did it work best that way?
3. Eq or not, while tracking?

While I was happy with the result, I cant get over my mind about how many things I have yet to understand.
I tried to find info on the matter but had no luck at all. I have some books on mixing and recording but none of them contain even a single line remotely connected to the way mics work, especially in relation to each other.
I even contacted some schools who offer classes, but curriculum is mostly around post editing and staff (...).
I want the understand these basic engineering principles, as I feel they are key to becoming better.
Anybody care to share any info or resources?

Thank you, everyone!

 

[Ricardus]

So, two main questions popped right after:
1. Why angle the individual mic at 90 or 45 and not just any random angle? Why is it that these work the best?
2. Why position the mics in the fixed axis fashion? Why did it work best that way?
3. Eq or not, while tracking?

45 degrees to a drum head isn't a bad way to record. People have been doing it for ages.

Perpendicular to a guitar cabinet is also fine. Then again lots of people turn the mics slightly off axis because they think it gives them something.

I never EQ to tape, but that doesn't mean you can't.

So why are phase issues bad during tracking but not bad in the final mix if you choose to do the EQ'ing there? Nonsense. People have been EQing the crap out of mixes for decades and decades. It's fine. And from what I have seen in various tests over the years the phase shift that you do get is inconsequential.

This is one of those things where I am loathe to say "there are no rules," because there are. It's one of those situations, often, however, where you have to know the rules before you can break them without fear.

 

[C12VR]

I once saw a video where some neolithic meathead claimed micing a guitar cab at 45 deg. was better because the speaker is slanted.
It might sound good, but that would be due to FR response difference off axis.

mics should be used on-axis simply because that is the position they are optimized for. You lose the benefits of the polar pattern if you don't use on-axis. As for the parallel/perpendicular axis microphones thing I'm not convinced it really matters. I think the idea is to minimize phase issues and maximize rejection but in practice this may prove difficult, and any benefit may not be perceptible, or if it is, it may not be better, just different. Especially with close mics.

 

[totoxraymond]

Hi,

If we're talking about drums recording, my experience is that pointing the mic towards the center of the drumhead gives the best attack.

I tried the "put all mics in the same direction to opimize phase" theory a few times. But in my opinion, the problem with drums is that you get so many sources close to each other that trying tonhave everything in phase is next to impossible. So now i aim for minimum spill, point'g the rear of the mic toward the nearest noise source. This way worked well for me.

And finally, i think the most important thing when miking drums is getting the overhead right, this should be the base of your sound.

Having said that, you should experiment, it's noce to read/talk about drums recording, but that can't replace trials and errors.

Cheers,

Thomas

 

[Ricardus]

There is no was to get all drum mics in phase unless you use 1, or 2 in an XY or something.

But there certainly are tried and true techniques I would recommend to a beginner. Something like the Glyn Johns method since it uses a small number of mics.

 

[SoundsOfJill]

Why not both? The Fredman technique is basically having one SM57 perpendicular and another at 45° on the same speaker. Is it the sound you need? In the end it always boil down to what it sounds like.

 

[Tubetec]

I like to fine tune acoustic instruments by finding the sweet spot ,
pointing towards the bridge gives more plectum ,more attack , up towards the sound hole more volume , pointing down a bit for more treble ,up a bit to favour bass strings etc its about finding a space in 3 dimensions where the natural balance of the instrument is maintained , course theres always going to be some variation in relative position between artist and microphone on every take , people shift around too .
It can be helpfull to use tape markers on the ground as reference points , so the tallent finds it easier to return to close to the same point in space ,say after a break .

 

[TwentyTrees]

It can be helpfull to use tape markers on the ground as reference points , so the tallent finds it easier to return to close to the same point in space ,say after a break .

Or as I did on one memorable occasion, tape the talent's feet to the floor.

He was a good friend, so didn't take it (too) badly!

 

[Chrisfromthepast]

For drums, you’re going to have snare in every other mic, so it’s important to deal with this.
Fig 2 features spaced pairs for overheads in 3 of the examples, but when doing spaced pairs, the distance to snare matters. In a pinch you can use a mic cable as measurement device, to get both overheads the same distance from the snare.
If you use a hi hat mic, position it so that energy from the snare is blocked by the hi hat.
When Im on autopilot, the standard snare setup is a 57 with the back vents of the diaphragm right above the rim, and nearly parallel to the skin of the drum. And I hang a e604 on the bottom and trigger a gate off the top snare to kill the rattle, and invert polarity.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Miking drum kits with multiple mics is complicated,,, don't expect to find simple, easy answers.

dtb the drum tuning bible is a good general resource

JR

 

[Tubetec]

I stopped using stereo overheads on the drums , it causes all kinds of horrible comb filtering effects ,
instead just a single tube condenser mic over head ,
I add the stereo image by using a set of spaced cardioids either side of the kit , just a few inches up off the floor, it gives a beautifully wide stereo image with a rock solid mono sound in the middle .
You can afford to loose much of the top end on the spaced pair , on a few sessions we used single seater couches upside down with the mics underneath to reduce the cymbals a bit more .
If you happen to have good acoustics , increaqsing the distance of the spaced pair will get you more room ambience .
So normally I try not to use more than 5 mics on the drums , OH(mono), Bass drum, snare, and stereo pair .
Hadnt heard of the DTB before , must definately have a look .

 

[Chrisfromthepast]

I stopped using stereo overheads on the drums , it causes all kinds of horrible comb filtering effects ,
instead just a single tube condenser mic over head

Yes, spaced pairs can be very problematic. The natural alternative of ORTF or XY above the center of the kit never really did it for me though.

What style of music is the OP recording?
In a good sounding room and a dynamic band the Glyn Johns approach can be an accurate and honest presentation that works great.
If you’re recording technical metal or something very dense, the tom mics and kick in and snare bottom become more important at mix time.

 

[Ricardus]

Yes, spaced pairs can be very problematic. The natural alternative of ORTF or XY above the center of the kit never really did it for me though.

X/Y is all I use, and every time I start panning the kit everything just sounds right to me.

 

[Chrisfromthepast]

@Ricardus do you have a go to mic for XY?
And height?

 

[Ricardus]

@Ricardus do you have a go to mic for XY?
And height?

I have used just about everything over the years, depending on what the studio's mic locker looked like.

KM184s, KM84's, AKG451's, Oktava MK012's, various Earthworks, 414's, U87s, ELAM-251's.

I generally go for SDC's, and out of my own mic locker I would use the KM84 clones I just built as my go-to mics right now. But it's always worth hanging a few to see what you like.

As for height, it depends on the drummer and where he places his brass, but I dunno... 6 feet high kinda centered over the snare.

 

[ASA]

I always found it interesting how Joey Waronker angled his tom mics. And Nigel Godrich by extension. Or maybe it was Nigel first, and then Joey picked it up?

 

[Ricardus]

Cant tell much from that photo.

 

[EnJeanEar]

They look like some kind of condenser mics, which makes it sort of easier to position the capsules parallel to the drum.

I do that with condensers occasionally, especially if I record brushes and soft staff in general.

 

[pucho812]

It took me 10 years to learn how to record drums properly. I still have things to learn but I am at a spot people like the Sonics and I am pleased as well.
The biggest thing to remember is how polar patterns are your friend here. Something like a figure 8 on a Tom kept the cymbals down to a minimum in the Tom mics.

 

[richiyobs]

There s not a unique and Universal way to place mics... everything depends on that moment
As a sound Man you should get the best picture of that event in that particular condition
The player has the Major role and more a good sounding room
Closed miking has the advantage to reduce interferences from other sources... But snappy tone...
Try to translate It in wavelenght and its relative octaves...Sometimes It helped me a lot to understand what Is going on
especially if the mics are very far from the source and very Wide configuration
Pay attention to get best focus on snare on a drum kit in a stereo set... I Always start checking the polarity from overhead to snare top... they catch the undertow of the wave
The rest Will be your experience that Will never end!
Less mics less phase problems
Best