Ptownkid
Well-known member
Hey, first post huh, welcome man,
Don't worry, this douchbaggery is not common around here
Don't worry, this douchbaggery is not common around here
New Projects (pics)
- Thread starter Handcrafted Tone
- Start date
Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:
SSLtech
Well-known member
I've had quite enough of this stuff.
I'm going to apologise for calling you a dipshit. That wasn't good for anything.
Here however are a few facts that I challenge you to classify as incorrect:
1) The very first response after your mention of effort (from Greg) makes a distinction between "effort" and "difficulty" which is in more or less precise agreement with my posted thought.
2) Something which is "difficult" usually requires a particular skill to overcome or achieve. This is different and quite distinct from "effort".
3) I said that I thought that -in confusing the two distinct semantic meanings- you are rather flattering yourself. That's not an insult, it is an opinion. I'll give you some more opinions later if you like, but they're not insults. Therefore I did not start the insult-tossing. -When I read your insulting response, I was so incensed (witness the bad typing... -worse than usual!) that my response ending with a single word insult. I now apologise for this. -I felt that your post tone was uncalled for, and I still do.... but I WILL NOT me characterised as having started the insult throwing, and I will not sink to it again. Instead I am responding with fact-based replies that are open to legitimate challenge.
4)My contention was -and still is- that what you are defending in terms of your own undisputed efforts, is assembling kits. Peter C did the adaption of the original design by Rup-ert Ne-ve, and that took some work on his part. He then went on and developed it, adding local metering and redrawing the board to incorporate certain other mechanically advantageous features, -like using the pots, switches and LEDs to help locate the board against the front panel, reducing the wiring complexity... Then he shared it freely. not for sale, and not for profit. Not for personal gain, but out of the kindness of his heart, and generosity of his spirit.
5) You, I, and a good number of people here on this board could train an 18-year old school-leaver to source parts and assemble them into kits. It may indeed be tedious, but it's not rocket science; -Rocket science is "difficult".
Here is another opinion for people to consider: the vast majority of your posts that I recall are to do with your personal gain. You use other people's work and profit from it.
You sell PCBs of other people's designs. You ask others for help, and you sell kits of other people's work.
Now it's my opinion that this really takes the 'Y' out of "DIY". -This isn't Do-It-Yourself, this is paint-by-numbers. That's what some people want, and so that's okay. It's like the Bloo LA-2a's, -more my idea of enterprise than of DIY. I don't sell stuff here, but I do share my designs. I've redrawn and adapted other existing designs like the 9K pre, in a similar way to how Peter has done things. I've also come up with more original stuff, like the output balancing board, the ±18V & +48V power supply board, and I've never made so much as one red cent out of it. -Now I think THAT is more difficult. That does take a certain skill, and no less patience and effort.
I've had a search through your posts, and the majority are connected with you selling things, or closely connected with things that you sell. That is very much against the spirit of sharing which sets this grou apart from so many others. I can't easily find ANY posts where you help solve anyone else's electronic problems, be they design, construction or repair. -Maybe you can post a link here and help me out a little?
Otherwise, I'll be forced to run with the opinion that you're here to help yourself out more than help others. -I mean... come.. ON!!! -Selling Neutrik XLRs??? -Who the hell can't find them for themself? -Oh, and the number of "rolling eyes" emoticons in your posts is rather telling. -That really IS the attitude that you have when you post a lot of these things here, isn't it?
My Name is Keith, and I stand by the numbered facts which I've written above. Correction -in public- is welcomed.
I'm going to apologise for calling you a dipshit. That wasn't good for anything.
Here however are a few facts that I challenge you to classify as incorrect:
1) The very first response after your mention of effort (from Greg) makes a distinction between "effort" and "difficulty" which is in more or less precise agreement with my posted thought.
2) Something which is "difficult" usually requires a particular skill to overcome or achieve. This is different and quite distinct from "effort".
3) I said that I thought that -in confusing the two distinct semantic meanings- you are rather flattering yourself. That's not an insult, it is an opinion. I'll give you some more opinions later if you like, but they're not insults. Therefore I did not start the insult-tossing. -When I read your insulting response, I was so incensed (witness the bad typing... -worse than usual!) that my response ending with a single word insult. I now apologise for this. -I felt that your post tone was uncalled for, and I still do.... but I WILL NOT me characterised as having started the insult throwing, and I will not sink to it again. Instead I am responding with fact-based replies that are open to legitimate challenge.
4)My contention was -and still is- that what you are defending in terms of your own undisputed efforts, is assembling kits. Peter C did the adaption of the original design by Rup-ert Ne-ve, and that took some work on his part. He then went on and developed it, adding local metering and redrawing the board to incorporate certain other mechanically advantageous features, -like using the pots, switches and LEDs to help locate the board against the front panel, reducing the wiring complexity... Then he shared it freely. not for sale, and not for profit. Not for personal gain, but out of the kindness of his heart, and generosity of his spirit.
5) You, I, and a good number of people here on this board could train an 18-year old school-leaver to source parts and assemble them into kits. It may indeed be tedious, but it's not rocket science; -Rocket science is "difficult".
Here is another opinion for people to consider: the vast majority of your posts that I recall are to do with your personal gain. You use other people's work and profit from it.
You sell PCBs of other people's designs. You ask others for help, and you sell kits of other people's work.
Now it's my opinion that this really takes the 'Y' out of "DIY". -This isn't Do-It-Yourself, this is paint-by-numbers. That's what some people want, and so that's okay. It's like the Bloo LA-2a's, -more my idea of enterprise than of DIY. I don't sell stuff here, but I do share my designs. I've redrawn and adapted other existing designs like the 9K pre, in a similar way to how Peter has done things. I've also come up with more original stuff, like the output balancing board, the ±18V & +48V power supply board, and I've never made so much as one red cent out of it. -Now I think THAT is more difficult. That does take a certain skill, and no less patience and effort.
I've had a search through your posts, and the majority are connected with you selling things, or closely connected with things that you sell. That is very much against the spirit of sharing which sets this grou apart from so many others. I can't easily find ANY posts where you help solve anyone else's electronic problems, be they design, construction or repair. -Maybe you can post a link here and help me out a little?
Otherwise, I'll be forced to run with the opinion that you're here to help yourself out more than help others. -I mean... come.. ON!!! -Selling Neutrik XLRs??? -Who the hell can't find them for themself? -Oh, and the number of "rolling eyes" emoticons in your posts is rather telling. -That really IS the attitude that you have when you post a lot of these things here, isn't it?
My Name is Keith, and I stand by the numbered facts which I've written above. Correction -in public- is welcomed.
Guys chill out 
Both "types" are required for this community.
Yes, we need designers and engineers, who spend time refining their designs and knowledge. By giving their designs and effort to a community, I'd like to think their reward is one of respect and kudos. Sure, they may not pay the bills, but it must be quite a boost to feel wanted and needed by a community. In fact, I'd go so far to say that they get more kudos by releasing on a public forum than most designers get at companies. Noone ever asks who the designer was Roland? Or who the main designer is at SSL these days.
On the other side of the coin, kitting and pcb's are very valuable services wthin the community as well. Who on earth wants to go round digikey, mouser, farnell etc looking for parts, having to comprimise on the parts you want, ordering the wrong size package at times and paying all the extra postage from all of them?
The amount of effort that goes into kitting can be just as much as designing at times, except the effort isn't technical. Finding companies in China that make the switches in the first place, finding the upfront cash for MOQ's and then sitting there, sorting resistors into zip-lock bags is a painful effort.
I'm definately more likely to actually build a project with a kit of that type than if I have to source everything individually myself.
I'm not saying either of you are right, or either of you are wrong. What I AM saying is that there is place for both, and that ****-flinging each other doesn't get anyone anywhere.
It just aggrivates you both during your working day.
Both "types" are required for this community.
Yes, we need designers and engineers, who spend time refining their designs and knowledge. By giving their designs and effort to a community, I'd like to think their reward is one of respect and kudos. Sure, they may not pay the bills, but it must be quite a boost to feel wanted and needed by a community. In fact, I'd go so far to say that they get more kudos by releasing on a public forum than most designers get at companies. Noone ever asks who the designer was Roland? Or who the main designer is at SSL these days.
On the other side of the coin, kitting and pcb's are very valuable services wthin the community as well. Who on earth wants to go round digikey, mouser, farnell etc looking for parts, having to comprimise on the parts you want, ordering the wrong size package at times and paying all the extra postage from all of them?
The amount of effort that goes into kitting can be just as much as designing at times, except the effort isn't technical. Finding companies in China that make the switches in the first place, finding the upfront cash for MOQ's and then sitting there, sorting resistors into zip-lock bags is a painful effort.
I'm definately more likely to actually build a project with a kit of that type than if I have to source everything individually myself.
I'm not saying either of you are right, or either of you are wrong. What I AM saying is that there is place for both, and that ****-flinging each other doesn't get anyone anywhere.
It just aggrivates you both during your working day.
SSLtech
Well-known member
[quote author="Rochey"]****-flinging each other doesn't get anyone anywhere.[/quote]
Hence the apology and correction. As regards the rest which is presented as fact: correction of any errors is welcome.
This started because Ed Anderson raised an ethical point, which turned out to be something which Rob had considered and was attempting to address. Ptownkid on the other hand replied in what I consider to be a demeaning manner.
If I were to characterise who contributes more to this forum in terms of demeanor or approach between Ed or Ptownkid, there's no question that Ed is made of better stuff than... what *IS* his name anyway?
Keith
Hence the apology and correction. As regards the rest which is presented as fact: correction of any errors is welcome.
This started because Ed Anderson raised an ethical point, which turned out to be something which Rob had considered and was attempting to address. Ptownkid on the other hand replied in what I consider to be a demeaning manner.
If I were to characterise who contributes more to this forum in terms of demeanor or approach between Ed or Ptownkid, there's no question that Ed is made of better stuff than... what *IS* his name anyway?
Keith
Keith,
my bad - I didn't read the top of your post... I skipped down to the opinion on personal gain from kitting, which fired me up a little.
I have a little more food for thought I'd like to share.
I get to sit on the fence here again - With my job, I get see how things normally work in the industry and how the supply chain normally works.
Let me see... the average disty out in Electronics land (outside of Asia) is probably making in Excess of 30% margin on 1K unit business. As the volumes drop, that margin increases even more.. and so does the postage as you go from one disty to another.
So, if a kitter here wants to make 10-15% margin for hours spent trying to find the right parts to fit the PCB's, holding stock and taking his time to sort and send the stuff. I personally have no issue with that, because I've SAVED money doing it that way, rather than paying postage 5 different times + paying Farnell costs & margins.
So - would I rather put a little margin into someone who's serving a community, who's getting the exact part and putting kits together, or would I like to put 30%+ into a disty who doesn't really give a rats ass about what I'm ordering, because my volumes are one's and two's? Do you think Farnell cares if it's a groupdiy project, If Peter designed it, or if it's your Power design?
I'm not saying your wrong Keith, I'm just saying that there is room for the designers and the kitters here. The kitters offer a valuable service for those of us without the time or want to source parts all over the place.
I think the issue your raising (or the one I'm interpreting) is that why should a kitter make money, when the designer in a forum like this doesn't make any.
I really think it's a case of "reward". A kitter doesn't get his name on anything. A kitter doesn't get any "respect" "kudos" or "status". Nor does he sharpen his design skills by designing something and getting feedback from the community.
He's just another supply chain - but instead of one that rips you off and doesn't give a sh*t, he is one that knows the project your making, knows which parts would work best and then supplies them in a timely manner.
Anyway, off my soapbox now.
Enjoy your day,
R
my bad - I didn't read the top of your post... I skipped down to the opinion on personal gain from kitting, which fired me up a little.
I have a little more food for thought I'd like to share.
I get to sit on the fence here again - With my job, I get see how things normally work in the industry and how the supply chain normally works.
Let me see... the average disty out in Electronics land (outside of Asia) is probably making in Excess of 30% margin on 1K unit business. As the volumes drop, that margin increases even more.. and so does the postage as you go from one disty to another.
So, if a kitter here wants to make 10-15% margin for hours spent trying to find the right parts to fit the PCB's, holding stock and taking his time to sort and send the stuff. I personally have no issue with that, because I've SAVED money doing it that way, rather than paying postage 5 different times + paying Farnell costs & margins.
So - would I rather put a little margin into someone who's serving a community, who's getting the exact part and putting kits together, or would I like to put 30%+ into a disty who doesn't really give a rats ass about what I'm ordering, because my volumes are one's and two's? Do you think Farnell cares if it's a groupdiy project, If Peter designed it, or if it's your Power design?
I'm not saying your wrong Keith, I'm just saying that there is room for the designers and the kitters here. The kitters offer a valuable service for those of us without the time or want to source parts all over the place.
I think the issue your raising (or the one I'm interpreting) is that why should a kitter make money, when the designer in a forum like this doesn't make any.
I really think it's a case of "reward". A kitter doesn't get his name on anything. A kitter doesn't get any "respect" "kudos" or "status". Nor does he sharpen his design skills by designing something and getting feedback from the community.
He's just another supply chain - but instead of one that rips you off and doesn't give a sh*t, he is one that knows the project your making, knows which parts would work best and then supplies them in a timely manner.
Anyway, off my soapbox now.
Enjoy your day,
R
Ptownkid
Well-known member
Not only does what I do help people here, and is openly appreciated by most, but i have also answered as many questions here as I could.
When you search for my posts, try not limiting the search field to the black Market
My name is Bryan, and I'm done with this
When you search for my posts, try not limiting the search field to the black Market
My name is Bryan, and I'm done with this
SSLtech
Well-known member
Bryan,
Thanks for editing out the "My name's Bryan and your still an *******". -I appreciate that.
-Really.
A correction though: I didn't limit my search to the black market, but a lot of your posts are there. the middle link of the three I posted was from the LAB. -if you'd pay attention, perhaps you'd spot that.
Keith
Thanks for editing out the "My name's Bryan and your still an *******". -I appreciate that.
-Really.
A correction though: I didn't limit my search to the black market, but a lot of your posts are there. the middle link of the three I posted was from the LAB. -if you'd pay attention, perhaps you'd spot that.
Keith
Svart
Well-known member
LADIES! damn can't we all just get back to our GSSLs!
:green:
Look, everybody here that takes initiative to do something other than lurk does what they do because they feel that it's needed and wanted. How hard the work is or how much effort it takes is irrelevant. Some people work harder, some people give more effort, in the end it doesn't matter, you did what you did because you wanted to do it and that should be the only thing that counts.
Ethics are another matter completely.
:green:
Look, everybody here that takes initiative to do something other than lurk does what they do because they feel that it's needed and wanted. How hard the work is or how much effort it takes is irrelevant. Some people work harder, some people give more effort, in the end it doesn't matter, you did what you did because you wanted to do it and that should be the only thing that counts.
Ethics are another matter completely.
Ptownkid
Well-known member
Agreed svart
Handcrafted; I'd like to apologize to you for our thread piracy
Handcrafted; I'd like to apologize to you for our thread piracy
Kev
Well-known member
Hi Keef
:grin:
How's ya day goin' ?
:wink:
:grin:
How's ya day goin' ?
:wink:
SSLtech
Well-known member
G'day Kev...
Preeety good, mate... -I just got some of Extron Sync strippers/converters that go to and from RGsB, RGBS, RGBHV... and some -great cases, too! -$10 the lot at Skycraft...
I'm building my new B-format preamp into one case, with gratitude for he design input from Pstamler and Bcarso... I'll post pics when it's done.
Keith
Preeety good, mate... -I just got some of Extron Sync strippers/converters that go to and from RGsB, RGBS, RGBHV... and some -great cases, too! -$10 the lot at Skycraft...
I'm building my new B-format preamp into one case, with gratitude for he design input from Pstamler and Bcarso... I'll post pics when it's done.
Keith
NewYorkDave
Well-known member
Ooooh, let me know if you spot more stuff like that, Extron or otherwise (especially switchers, VGA-to-NTSC scan converters and the like).
Having been in this sort o thing many a time....I think I'm qualified to be the referee between you two Boxers but let's not fight. Your foe today can be your friend tomorrow. It's happened to me, thought some people still quietly hold a grudge.
Let's make audio producing gadgets, that's why we're here.
analag
Let's make audio producing gadgets, that's why we're here.
analag
Ptownkid
Well-known member
We're good, i think
SSLtech
Well-known member
He's certainly good.
...
... I'm just better. :wink:
:green:
keef
...
... I'm just better. :wink:
:green:
keef
Ptownkid
Well-known member
well...was there ever really any question?
Skycraft, I miss that place....
Keith, I was there once and found some sweet road-esqe cases that had all these great NASA flight stickers on it. If you're ever there and find anythign like that, pick me up one!!!
That place is a diamond in the rough. You should have a weekly trip where you buy stuff an dpost it for sale here. There is some gems at the place!
Keith, I was there once and found some sweet road-esqe cases that had all these great NASA flight stickers on it. If you're ever there and find anythign like that, pick me up one!!!
That place is a diamond in the rough. You should have a weekly trip where you buy stuff an dpost it for sale here. There is some gems at the place!
Larrchild
Well-known member
MMMm Skycraft.. I remember buying NOS 6386's there in the mid-80's for $5 a tube. *looks up wistfully*
Nice work Handcrafted. I hope you're still checking into this thread.
I was hoping you have some detailed measurements for the 2520 style op-amp. I'm designing some PCB's and need pin spacing information. All the tech pages I'm finding on the web are too distorted to read.
I'd appreciate any information.
Thank you.
I was hoping you have some detailed measurements for the 2520 style op-amp. I'm designing some PCB's and need pin spacing information. All the tech pages I'm finding on the web are too distorted to read.
I'd appreciate any information.
Thank you.
Handcrafted Tone
Well-known member
here ya go,
grid spacing is .1"
grid spacing is .1"
