Oil refinery..

[user 37518]

Well, my dear goverment just bought an oil refinery in Texas for around $600 million USD, not only is oil becoming a thing of the past but they just found out that the plant has around $980 million USD in debt that must be paid, that was a smart decision

 

[PermO]

How do I get in contact with your government ?

I might have a great deal for them...

 

[user 37518]

How do I get in contact with your government ?

I might have a great deal for them...

No, please no, no more, we have to pay it!

 

[JohnRoberts]

I finally sold my BP stock... we will still be using fossil fuel for decades, but the bloom is off that rose.

Mexico has oil exports (48% goes to US) so probably wants a taste of the higher margin refined products business. Years ago an airline bought their own refinery to cut out the middle man.

JR

PS: BTC miners are reopening shuttered power plants, converting to NG and making electricity again. I heard that my local white elephant clean coal plant is being torn down... They will keep the part burning NG but clean coal is a failed experiment, that my fellow ratepayers will end up paying for.

 

[user 37518]

Mexico has oil exports (48% goes to US) so probably wants a taste of the higher margin refined products business. Years ago an airline bought their own refinery to cut out the middle man.

Well, more to my point, by 2035 the US will be using all electric cars and by 2050 there will be a zero emissions policy, so if the US is buying 48% of Mexico's oil, its not a smart investment to buy an oil refinery, which owes more than what is worth....

Seems like investing on typing machines or fax machines with hopes that it will provide revenue in the future....

 

[PermO]

There's this guy in my town riding around on this "zero emission !!!" bicycle...

So I asked him how he does that keeping his breath in all day...

He froze, without a reply,...

 

[Gold]

Well, more to my point, by 2035 the US will be using all electric cars and by 2050 there will be a zero emissions policy, so if the US is buying 48% of Mexico's oil, its not a smart investment to buy an oil refinery, which owes more than what is worth....

Seems like investing on typing machines or fax machines with hopes that it will provide revenue in the future....

I don't see that the move to electric vehicles will cut down on fossil fuel consumption. Only curb CO2 emissions because the CO2 at a power plant can be sequestered. Renewable energy certainly can't power all the worlds cars.

 

[megasat16]

Not only that our current renewable energy is unable to power all the worlds cars from emitting dirty CO2, it is far fetched to power all the factories and mining operations to produce the source of renewable energy. I hope the renewable energy will come along very quickly and it will change one day. And then, there is this COVID thing too.

 

[cyrano]

Mining is by definition not producing renewable energy ...

For the rest; solar, wind and other forms of renewable have been cheaper than any other form of energy production for a number of years now. And that's investment as well as running costs.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Mining is by definition not producing renewable energy ...

BTC mining is a major consumer of energy

For the rest; solar, wind and other forms of renewable have been cheaper than any other form of energy production for a number of years now. And that's investment as well as running costs.

If it is so cheap free market forces would drive the evolution. The electric car is 100 years old and still need government subsidies to sell.

JR

PS: For a dirty secret about burning even (green) hydrogen for energy, burning hydrogen in pure oxygen makes water, but burning in air create nitrous oxide air pollution.

 

[Gold]

Mining is by definition not producing renewable energy ...

It is producing the raw materials necessary to build renewable energy collection devices.

 

[megasat16]

When it comes to renewable energy, we are getting to a point which comes first. An axe or the wood handle? I think we haven't passed this stage yet.

 

[cyrano]

Free market forces are driving the change-over. Of course, there are still monopolist corporate forces trying to resist evolution, but that's hardly news, is it?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Free market forces are driving the change-over. Of course, there are still monopolist corporate forces trying to resist evolution, but that's hardly news, is it?

Massive government subsidies are the exact opposite of free market forces.

JR

 

[cyrano]

Sigh...

There are a lot of things going on. If you throw all of them on the same pile, you won't be able to get to the crux of the matter.

Building and exploiting renewable sources of energy has been cheaper for a few years now. Subsidies are just the cherry on the cake.

But, please, go ahead. Invest in oil. Or coal.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Sigh... Why is it people love to believe and hate to know?

JR

 

[megasat16]

I think renewable energy goes back to about 40 years ago and it's been progressing. But for the sake of renewable energy, I am not going to debate it. I guess I'll just go outside to absorb some sunlight and get the vitamin D which is healthy. I think SUN has been the best renewable energy for our mind and body to stay healthy.

GroupDIY has some good info but I prefer DIYAudio for audio stuff.

Adieu. Please enjoy your discussions.

 

[Gold]

Massive government subsidies are the exact opposite of free market forces.

JR

Fossil fuels are heavily subsidized. I don't know why there are complaints about subsidizing renewables.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I complain whenever I perceive the government distorting free market decisions.

The vast majority of oil "subsidies" (cough) are tax breaks for sundry capital investments (not unlike tax breaks for other industries). The US government has promoted low cost energy supply since WWI for obvious strategic reasons.

I would be OK with dropping ALL government subsidies and their various economic market distortions, but I will not hold my breath for that.

JR

PS: I already sold my BP stock (it is out of favor with ESG investors).