PCB layout

[Brian Roth]

I haven't had to lay out a circuit board in eons, and Back Then, I'd doodle up the design on gridded paper, than translate it onto clear "acetate" with Bishop Graphics "stickies" at 2X.

In more recent times, I've fiddled with various "PCB CAD" demo apps, and a few from the PCB houses.

I'm talking about through-hole parts, and typically a single-sided design, not a 200000 layer board for the latest computer stuff.

Soooo, I decided to snoop around here, and I tried various "search terms", especially looking for Metas, to see Whazzup in these modern times..

I obviously have missed the boat on this list since I found little info beyond a few links to apps that were either deficient, or "professionally priced".

I don't plan on doing multi-layer boards, and the few software apps I tried seem to be more stupid than a box of rocks (a double-sided board for the simplest design I could throw into the schematic capture???). My favorite "auto routing" joke is when the traces overlap each other...Duh....

My latest "to be deleted" from the hard drive is DipTrace, which got a mention in Nuts and Volts recently.

In the meantime, I merely translated my antique methods via DesignCAD to draw up this board (regulated 6.3 VDC plus unregulated 300 VDC for some old Gates/RCA/etc modules):

http://www.brianroth.com/test/pcb2.pdf

It began life as a schematic doodle, then I translated it onto grid paper, then re-drew it in DesignCAD.

What am I missing here?

Sadly, my ancient collection of Bishop "stickies" have dried out..... and I'm in no mood to pay hundreds or thousands of dollars for software that "designs" obviously stupid layouts for something as simple as a power supply, or a couple of TL072's that drive a VU meter!

Bri

 

[gyraf]

What am I missing here?

I don't think you're missing anything. I've never come across an autorouter that was even remotely useable for audio work. Some better than others, but never anything I'd trust.

So I still use a draw-only dos-program named EasyPC from 1989. Good thing is that you can fit the programs, libaries, and a couple of hundred artwork files onto a single 1.44M floppy :razz:

Jakob E.

 

[Brian Roth]

Bah! I figured there would be a useful software program.

OK, I'll stick with my gridded paper and manual designs...

Bri

 

[Viitalahde]

For what the hell are autorouters used anyway? DVD player layouts?

I'm using the simplest free software I found: an all French program Trace De CI. :razz: I like it very much since it's missing all the bells'n whistles. It just has a component library, draws lines, places pads, outputs Gerber. I'm etching boards made with it as I speak.

 

[Brian Roth]

Bah! I'll manualy layout.

Bri

 

[tv]

http://www.freepcb.com/ is also free (windows).
http://iut-tice.ujf-grenoble.fr/kicad/ (windows/linux)

 

[magicchord]

I've had boards made by ExpressPCB before; very nice job.

http://www.expresspcb.com/

Their layout app is free. Of course, I don't bother with any autorouting and just lay the boards out myself. But for my transistor tinkering they work fine.

Example

 

[hejsan]

Hi. I have tried out winqcad: http://www.winqcad.com/
and it was pretty foolproof. It has step by step tutorials in the help and is free (with a 499 pin limit)

I think it offers only 2 sides + silkscreen, plated through holes and all that.

It can export gerberx, autocad dxf, pdf, g-code for cnc machines and even word??

I found the autorouter very good too, and it had the ability to make ground planes very simply. And if you don't like the autorouting it makes it is very easy to adjust it manually, and even has curved lines and it's very easy too choose different line widths.

I looked through a bunch of programs, but this one was by far the simplest.

I however am not an EE so if you people now about any caveats to that program, please tell.

hejsan

 

[bcarso]

As a firm believer in the division of labor, I've preferred to use a trusted board layout guy who I believe uses Pads-PCB or something like that---I'll ask him. He is fairly cheap, very fast, and listens to what you want rather than second-guessing.

Another board layout guy who was good with analog said that a colleague loved autorouters fro digital and made more money by padding bills a bit because the autorouter was fast and generally adequate. However, that was in the days of lower data rates, when you could run a few inches without having impedance mismatches and crosstalk kill you. However, the latest digital-oriented tools have caught up I believe, although they are pricey.

Analog gets little respect from software houses until you are doing RF, and then the packages are extremely expensive, but handle astonishingly detailed full Maxwellian analysis, which you need for such things to work optimally.

I've heard fairly positive things about Orcad's associated layout software, but it is also not cheap and takes a while to learn.

 

[Svart]

I've used the Orcad suite and it is very nice.. but hardly affordable unless you do all of that on your own as a contractor.

I use the old circuitmaker/traxmaker 2000 suite which is plenty adequate. the only drawback is the time it takes to draw your own devices and footprints.

 

[Flatpicker]

I've used lots of the expensive programs over the years at various companies where I was employed. I have been using Rimu for the past couple of years and it never ceases to amaze me how something so good can be so cheap! Easily one of the best purchases I've ever made. Period. And, I'd buy it again, and again, and again... I can't understand why everyone's not using it? If you have enough money to manufacture PCBs, you have enough to buy this.

Now, having said that - it's not perfect, but... (take note!) neither is any other software I've used!

 

[Ptownkid]

I just fire up autocad and go

 

[SALSA]

Have a look at http://www.abacom-online.de/uk/html/sprint-layout.html and give it a try.
Just PCB layout, no schematics, no autorouter but easy, fast and cheap.
Handles 2 sided boards with silkscreen & soldermask and generates gerbers + excellon drill files.
:grin:
Mike

 

[hejsan]

[quote author="bcarso"]I've heard fairly positive things about Orcad's associated layout software, but it is also not cheap and takes a while to learn.[/quote]

from the winqcad site: "blah blah.. includes a schematic design editor, compatible with Orcad Capture blah blah.."

 

[jtoole]

The designer I often work with uses a program called "Eagle". It is available in a wide variety of package options ranging from a freeware version to full pro package w/ autorouter. He seems to like it, and we use it at my work as well, but thats mainly digital designs for uCs... I don't have much first hand experience though.

Its made by CADSoftUSA

Edit: Freeware version is 100mm x 80mm, 1 sheet schematic, 2 layer boards...

The "non-profit" version offers all features (schematic, layout, autoroute), but is limited to 160mm x 100mm, 4 layers - It is $125 and you have to sign a form to agree its non-commercial use.

Josh

 

[TomWaterman]

I second Flatpickers nod to Rimu PCB I bought it during the summer and its ace! I'm yet to get boards fabbed but the software is easy to get into unlike eagle and its so cheap for what it is....

Making and editing footprints couldn't be easier....its easy on the eye too.

HTH
Tom

 

[alk509]

Thanks for mentioning Rimu! I just downloaded it, tried it for a few minutes, and bought it right away.

Peace,
Al.

 

[Bauman]

Dudes... you guys can be shocked but it is totally possible to use autorouter in audio boards Cadence Specctra is amazing if you know how to set up, and amazing expensive also :green:

I did a little test once to check, where I pre-routed the main audio path and most important signals and then let the autorouter make the rest. I set up double layer so top layer would be a 400 mils trace at max, automatic jumper maker babe! In the end you have a single layer board with some jumpers, cool enough to fast prototyping.

BUT of course, the beauty of manual layout will never be beated!

cheers!
Fabio

 

[PRR]

> What am I missing here?

A Sharpie.

Better: a professional drafting pen.

Pencil on graph paper, use carbon paper (remember that?) to transfer to copper, ink it up, soak off the copper.

Computers have their uses. If I think of one, I'll let you know.

 

[Rochey]

I can't speak highly enough of Cadsoft's Eagle package. Even their freeware version rocks.

Work through the tutorial for the basics (takes about an hour and a bit... but it's worth it).

The autorouter is okay, but I wouldn't really trust it.

Do some basic boards to start off with - like logic stuff or a PSU, just to get into it. Also, learn some of the tricks with making your own libraries. Get that right and you're laughing all the way.

You already have an advantage with the experience you have of doing it manually. This is just a tool to apply that knowledge.

let us know how you get on. Worst case, post a pencil schematic on here, and no doubt, someone will knock together a pcb image just to show how great they are :grin:

cheers

R