PCB Routing

[ruffrecords]

A really low desk top PCB router would be a boon for prototyping. I looked at these a year ago and the prices all seemed to be in the $5000 plus region. However, I read recently about a new product of this type by Roland DG said to be priced at 500 Euros. So far I can find not details about it. I have emailed Roland but the guy is 'out of the office' at the moment.

Are there any other good value desktop PCB routers?

Cheers

Ian

 

[Ptownkid]

$5000 sounds pretty steep for something small and simple...there are thousands of small cnc kit options out there.

 

[sahib]

ian,

I had Isel machines. German make. Unimatic Engineers in London used to be their UK distributor but I have just googled to find out that it changed hands.

http://www.iselcncmachines.co.uk/cnc_machines/cnc_flatbed.shtml

I think Galaad software also does pcb routing and very easy to use. You can get it directly which is greatly cheaper than UK prices.

 

[12volts]

I'd like to offer my thoughts on routing PCBs.

It's not worth the effort compared with etching. Etching is much faster, cleaner, and you can get much finer resolution.
Try routing 2 tracks (or even one for that matter) through 0.1" pads.
Machining a pcb is a non starter. FULL STOP. Ferric Chloride is easily disposed of.
Compare the costs of the two alternatives ......



Frank B.

 

[zayance]

If you need proto boards, i can help you by etching them, i always etch at least once a week so....,
of course is not like having a machine that does that (meaning you have it in your lab etc... quicker maybe?), but from what i heard, it takes a lot of time for making them,
and it's too much of a hassle.... Well that's what i heard from people owning routers and all.
Anyway if you need help in the future, just shoot me a PM...

Ha we've responded same time Franck, well another person against routing PCB i guess......

 

[gemini86]

I think the idea of machining the pcb is that you can pretty much set it and forget it (once you have your feeds and speeds right). Go do something else for a while and you don't worry about forgetting it in the etch bath and ruin a good copper clad.

 

[Ptownkid]

I find milling pcbs easier than etching with more consistent results...

 

[ruffrecords]

I'd like to offer my thoughts on routing PCBs.

It's not worth the effort compared with etching. Etching is much faster, cleaner, and you can get much finer resolution.
Try routing 2 tracks (or even one for that matter) through 0.1" pads.

Thanks for you comments Frank. One reason I am interested in routing is that I only do tube circuits so I have no need to route tracks between 0.1" spaced pads. The other reason is that I would like also to be able to engrave front panels and this might be possible with the same machine. Also, I have asthma and I am not too happy about the possibility of inhaling fumes when using etching methods. I would also have to buy a laser printer, UV exposure box and the necessary baths plus find room for them in my workshop. Also you still have to drill the holes in the PCB and I expect that is time consuming and not easy to keep accurate.

Cheers

Ian

 

[Ptownkid]

Drilling holes manually is the real time consuming part. Assuming that you are already laying out a circuit in something like eagle, exporting the milling outlines and drill file take seconds and the machine does the rest.

 

[ruffrecords]

If you need proto boards, i can help you by etching them, i always etch at least once a week so....,

That is a very kind offer and one I may well take you up on. My problem is for prototypes I only really need one PCB and that is not a cost effective way to buy from normal PCB manufacturers. Once the prototype is proven the bigger numbers are no problem from regular PCB manufacturers.

If I were to send you a set of Gerber files would that be sufficient?

Cheers

Ian

 

[zayance]

PM'd.

 

[john12ax7]

Also, I have asthma and I am not too happy about the possibility of inhaling fumes when using etching methods.

PCB routing is problematic too healthwise. The routing will throw fiberglass particles in the air.

 

[12volts]

I'd like to add some comment again.

Now, the best of both worlds - If you have a CNC machine use it for drilling only. Etch the board for detail and speed of production.
Your only requirement is two feducial marks (pads) on opposite corners of the PCB artwork. These will be generated in the gerber
file. They are then used to align the artwork for CNC drilling. Simple. A system I have used successfully for donkey's years.

Frank B.

 

[Ptownkid]

Also, I have asthma and I am not too happy about the possibility of inhaling fumes when using etching methods.

PCB routing is problematic too healthwise. The routing will throw fiberglass particles in the air.

Vacuum attachment

 

[kepeb]

Ian,
I'm an asthma sufferer too, since I was young. I etch and dill my project pcbs whenever I can. results vary and get better with practise, as does everything.

but I will say... the hole drilling process is much more of a trigger and I would guess very hazardous
do it outside. where as, I have regularly used ferric in the kitchen and experienced no ill effects.

you may however, experience some pain if your wife finds a ferric stain on the worktop, that stuff is hell to get off!!

 

[Ptownkid]

That's the exact reason that I prefer ammonium persulphate

 

[sahib]

When I was 18 I had TB. Then spent the following 30 years working with paint and all sorts of chemicals.

When drilling wear a proper dust mask. Also buy a cheap vacuum cleaner to use it as a dust extractor.

 

[john12ax7]

Vacuum attachment

This certainly helps. I have used the LPKF machines before. There is the vacuum and we also had it in a separate enclosure, even so still doesn't get 100%.

Through drilling FR-4 by hand might still be worse though.

 

[Gus]

I would look for the MSDS for the type of board used. 

 

[ruffrecords]

For the moment putting aside the pros and cons of PCB routing, does anyone have any more info on the Roland DG I mentioned in the original post?

Cheers

Ian