Peavey-AMR VC/L-2 upgrades anyone?

[jrmintz]

You could always stick it in a nicer box for sex appeal.

:shock: Huh? I'm shocked!!

:green:

 

[zmix]

[quote author="NewYorkDave"][quote author="zmix"]Not quite push pull, looks more like a cascode.[/quote]

No dude, that's not a cascode. That's a White cathode follower. It is push-pull and it does tend to cancel 2H distortion.

[/quote]


Mea Culpa. The peavey circuit, on the other hand, is not push-pull, the plates are tied together, the grids are tied together, and the cathodes are summed through 1k resistors.

my point of view, single ended is better because I happen to like 2nd harmonic distortion, and push pull cancels that harmonic.

Well, cancelling distortion would be a GOOD thing if you're after fidelity, which I think would be the main object in a mastering operation, but what do I know? :wink: I DO know that if I send my mix to a mastering house, I don't want them adding "interesting" distortion to it. But I grant you that the role of mastering houses has changed. It used to be that the mark of a good mastering job was that it didn't call attention to itself. Nowadays, ME's want to stamp their "signature" all over the record.

No need to get paranoid about mastering engineers.... They will work with you to get the sound you want. I mastered a record at Sterling in August and I demonstrated the coloration that the top of the line focusrite EQ was adding -set flat- to the mix. It took the ME several hours to hear it, but he really tuned into it. On some songs we went with the APIs because they added a certain sonic 'glue' (can you say low order harmonic distortion??)

I believe that what people dislike about solid state can be directly traced to PP output stages

Care to elaborate? If that's the case, then why do my old McIntosh and even Dynaco amps--all of them push-pull--sound so damn good? How about Pultec EQs, Langevin 5116Bs, Universal Audio 1016s, Langevin AM16s? All of these are completely push-pull, and all are generally regarded as excellent-sounding. Maybe you don't share the "majority opinion" of these units, and that's fine, but that doesn't mean push-pull is crap.

I don't think we should confuse a power amp with a signal processor. I want my processors to add distortion, and it's a dreamer's world where processing doesn't add distortion. I have a lot of gear that has PP outputs (API, Daking, Urei etc), and they generate mostly odd order harmonics. You need to balance these textures in a mix. A PP circuit , in my experience, will tend to make a bass sound more out of tune than a single ended circuit, due to the 'just' nature of the harmonic series. Even harmonics as in octaves, are always 'in tune'.

FYI, the pultec EQP-1H is single ended, and my favorite EQ of the line.
The 1176 up to rev F, and reissue are all single ended, as is the 1108 mic pre upon which the 1176 was based.

EDIT: Whoops, Zmix, I'm sorry. I got you confused with the original poster, who's setting up a mastering suite. You already said that you mix and don't master. But still, I stand by my statement that a blanket condemnation of push-pull isn't fair.

No worries. BTW I don't 'condemn' pp, dude. I didn't say it! I said that the bad rap in solid state has more to do with PP designs than SE designs. Look at the Neve 1073 vs 31102 or the later 8078 consoles. Neve users felt betrayed! Sure they were 'cleaner' but at what cost?

Nobody hates the SE SS stuff.

 

[extraware]

Well I certainly didn't expect such a detailed breakdown on the PV's design-but do appreciate it! Was hoping for more subjective listening/experience based reviews....but thanks anyway.

As to "coloration". I appreciate the mastering engineers need to avoid adding more then they intend to. I do, however, perceive that alot of the "essential" gear that most of the mastering houses use-especially for vinyl-is selected especially for such coloration.

I am looking for a way to achieve both ends-as needed. Alot of the vinyl cut is dance/dj/techno/ etc. And these guys often are looking for a little tube harmonic or transformer warmth for their tunes...............

(hopefully I'll get my NTP 179-120's fixed, see that post if you can help, for more pallette options..)

RNC-well it is hard to believe at that price, but I will try one out. Thanks for the suggestion, Paul.

I thinks I will buy the PV and give it a whirl. After I get a sense of it I will post some observations.

 

[mig27]

I have a Peavey VCL2 at home and am very happy with it.
Some words that come to my mind: big, ballsy, fat, old school.

It really is a slow compressor, that barely touches the transients of percussive signals like drums etc.
The tonal difference between limiting and compression modes is marginal.
The output stage can easily be driven to tape-like "hotness" - on the other hand, you need to be careful with your levels if you want the VCL2 to sound clean.

This box absolutely shines on vocals.
Even at hilarious GR settings, you rarely discerne a constant release time.
The comp seems to automatically adapt itself to every single word of a vocal performance => that must be the "magic" of the EL-panel as GR element.
My JoeMeek VC1q in comparison (LED/LDR as GR element) sounds way more predictable and static.

Hope that helps.


Michael

 

[pucho812]

thanks for the peavy Schemo :thumb:
I have one of these units which I got used. I really like the sound especially for the price I paid. Definately worth it just remove the peavy logo. :wink: Sounds and looks cool.
Anyway I got their AMR 2 channel mic pre as well another used piece I got for a steal do you have a schemo for that?

 

[rafafredd]

I don´t think it´s the same preamp, but might be worth checking:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=1121&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=

 

[pucho812]

hmmm. thank looks about right. Right amount/type of tubes. I'll have to check it when I get home to be sure. thanks. :thumb:

 

[zmix]

[quote author="extraware"]....

I thinks I will buy the PV and give it a whirl. After I get a sense of it I will post some observations.[/quote]

Do please post a review here once you get it~!

 

[extraware]

OK I bought it-$500. Initial listening tests are pretty good! PV says they will install a stereo link for $65 if I ship both ways to their repair center. (likely it is not a huge thing to install, but I am thinking I will send it to them just to have the "factory upgrade" as I will likely leave the piece alone otherwise-see later in this post)

I played with it across the mix (without stereo link). Honestly it is more neutral then I expected. So far I have been testing on the most recent projects loaded into my DAW-some techno that a local producer wanted cut to dubplate. Not the most challenging music from an ambient/textural perspective-but I was impressed with how much I could bring up the midrange without ruining the sonics. It doesn't seem to mess with the heavy bass lines at all. At first guess I thought that I would need to mod the unit for attack/release adjustments-now I think I may just let it do what it does and not try and make it a "superstar" unit. I'll still keep saving penny's for a really nice stereo vari-mu................and look for a nice sticker to put over the PV logos :green:

Mig27 was right-it is easy to overdrive the make-up gain, however, so if you want to keep it kinda clean then can't really use super low thresholds.

Thanks all for your inputs. I really appreciate it!

Erik

 

[DrFrankencopter]

I have the AMR preamp, and schematic. I did some upgrades to it too (replaced poly caps with polyprops, got rid of some ceramics in the EQ, and replaced electros with black gates). That unveiled the sound a bit, but it still retains a bit of that grungy character (which probably comes from the output iron, and highly bypassed cathodes).

PM me for the schemo

Cheers,

kris

 

[zmix]

Erik,

OK, now hurry up and get sick of it and it's client killing logo, and sell it to me!

-CZ

 

[zmix]

OK, I finally got my ears on a Peavey VC/L-2, bought it on e-bay, paid a lot more than you did. grrr.....

I wouldn't think this piece would be very good for mastering unless you had something so obnoxiously clean you wanted to change up a bit.. it's quite a colorful box! I measured 3% 3rd harmonic at 0vu, which is quite similar to tape.

My early impression is that the box has some problems in the low end when pushed hard, I haven't tested the non transformer output to determine if the transformer is the culprit.

I've also run sweeps on this thing and I've noticed that the limiting is much less sensitive at higher frequencies than my LA-3.

I might redesign the makeup amp to sweeten the tone a bit in terms of the lower harmonic balance.

more later.

 

[extraware]

Cool, glad you posted your findings. I have, I admit, not done much testing to mine. I have used it a few times for very light limiting and been pretty pleased with it for that purpose-and yes it tracks the low end mostly. Was very nice on a Jungle tune that was way over the top in the low end...............but yes-not a real mastering tool.

Cheers,

Erik

 

[zmix]

[quote author="extraware"]Cool, glad you posted your findings. I have, I admit, not done much testing to mine. I have used it a few times for very light limiting and been pretty pleased with it for that purpose-and yes it tracks the low end mostly. Was very nice on a Jungle tune that was way over the top in the low end...............but yes-not a real mastering tool.

Cheers,

Erik[/quote]

Erik,
I have posted a more detailled account here:

http://www.groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=8867&highlight=

 

[NewYorkDave]

Lots of 3H probably means distortion from the transformer(s). Distortion from the tubes, unless they're outright overdriven, is largely 2H.

 

[zmix]

Dave,

That is generally true, but not in this case. I've measured both since my earlier post. The unit has convenient 1/4" jacks which bypass the input and output transformers, respectively. The circuit has several dB of negative feedback which supresses a lot of the 2nd harmonic.

Please look over my notes in the other post and let me know what your thoughts are about the SC issue.

-CZ