My Peavey VC/L-2 Modification Story...

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zmix

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 3, 2004
Messages
150
Location
New York, New York
I remember being very impressed with the Peavey AMR VMP-2 preamp when it first hit the market. I did a a simply tally and realized that the parts inside would cost me more than the entire unit and it had the advantage of being new and under warranty! I was therefore quite happy to learn that PV went on to make a "tube compressor" in a similar package. I was pretty weary of manufacturers who market any old circuit in a box, add a vacuume tube and -voila! "Tube-Compressor". What bullshit. Peavey must have someone on staff who cares about this stuff. I wish I knew more about how these two products came to be - if you know, do tell!

The VC/L-2 uses the same "tube and transformer" topology as the pre.
For the VC/L-2 they remanufactured their own version of the T4-B (which, BTW, they note that they did "at great expense" although these days the EL panels are available at any 99 cent store as nightlights....)

Their mic pre used reichenbach transformers, the VC/L-2 uses something similar, but unbranded, The output transformer has a 3dB down point of 85kHZ. Not too shabby. The power supply is phenominal on this thing, too, it's regulated, clean, and quiet.


After years of looking I finally purchased one of these compressors on ebay, and, naturally, started experimenting with it almost immediately.

I've been around the block a few times with the thing, circuit-wise, and I have some interesting findings.

The original circuit is quite similar to, but not exactly the same as an LA-2A. I decided to modify one channel and leave the other stock, as a 'control group'.

The first thing I did was to redesign the input stage to generate a better distribution of harmonics. I have designed an original circuit that does this perfectly. This change made a phenominal difference in the sweetness of the tone, however there were several problems with this, some new, some old. The 'old' problem is that the sidechain introduces a tremendous amout of harmonic activity into the audio. One side effect of this 'harmonic injection' is that as the gain reduction is increased (oxymoron?) nearly all of the second harmonic is canceled and the tone hollows out. The 'new' problem is that my circuit seemed to have some stability issue, just before clipping it would generate spurious HF energy (8kHZ and higher). I worked on this for way too long, and I suspect it has something to do with the existing PCB layout. In my experience this is a real problem with a lot of Peavey tube gear. In the case of the VC/L-2 at least the channels are built on identical, individual circuit cards, so the channels do have nearly identical behavior. (unlike the 'tube sweetener'...yikes).

I eventually gave up on this modification and instead, I rewired the channel to be identical to the LA-2, right down to the white-follower on the output stage, the DC in the feedback loop and the paralleled tubes in the sidechain. As a final step I should be able to drop in a 12BH7 on the output with no problem.


Does anyone have any experience dealing with the sidechan bleed? My LA-3A has no such problem. Is it the opto? In the VC/L-2 the EL panel is driven by an EL84, which is on a separate daughter board and has a metal shield around it.
 
Wow since I made this post on July 19 2005 it's only right that I post a reply on July 15 2009....

As for the sidechain bleed into the audio, I recently got a great tip from Roy Hendrickson of Avatar studios.  He said that LA-2s have the same problem and the solution is to insert a piece of grounded metal screen between the EL panel and the photoresistors....
 
I believe the main reason you never had an answer is that no one can really help you there if you don't explain what your mod consists in. I would think your mod makes the input stage interference-prone...
 
Since I missed your first post I guess I can respond now..

I was around during the development of the VMP and VCL. IMO they are both serious tube paths, the tube sweetener whatever was a product that I successfully fought them even making for a few years but finally some other product manager decided to support it. arghh Don't expect there to be any similarity to the VCL and VMP other than they used one or more tubes inside. 

The senior design engineer on the VMP and VCL was Jack Sondermeyer. He's the same guy who designed the first CS800 and knew his way around tubes before transistors became robust enough for power amps.

I believe there were different junior engineers on the two projects. I didn't personally do any of the actual design, but I contributed some to features and general design direction. Making the gain knob on the VMP go up to 11 was my idea as an homage to Spinal Tap.  8) I was not enthusiastic about having tone controls on the VMP at all, but I lost that argument. I did get them to limit the amount of boost/cut to a modest amount, to make it harder for customers make bad sounds. Other minor features on the VMP, I contributed, there is a high impedance line out that bypasses the output transformer. My goal was to provide a slightly cleaner path for tracking direct to tape in the studio, but some customers may prefer transformer smudge (not I).  Another pretty much secret feature, since I had them engineer it in "just in case", was a PCB header/jumper that allows you the reduce the amount of negative feedback (actually loop gain margin). My concern was that the preamp might sound too clean, and disappoint studio tweaks wanting a "dirty" tube sound. I am pleased to report that AFAIK we never got one request for more distortion.  ;D I suspect this header was hardwired over in later production.

In the VCL Sondermeyer was thinking of doing a classic (CBS style?) all tube approach where tube transconductance was used as the gain element. I suggested they instead go for the sonically well respected EL light source/ LDR gain cell approach. As I recall it was a PIA to source the gain cell since nobody was selling anything close at the time besides some very expensive repair parts for the old units. So we had to roll our own.

One thing I regret in hindsight is that we didn't include a stereo link switch in the VCL. I did get the junior engineer to bench test a few units with the side-chains tied together, and there was no apparent weirdness or tracking problems. Since they were unenthusiastic about redesigning the faceplate to include a new switch, it never happened. 

I can't respond intelligently to your comments about the specific  PCB layouts. The mechanical drafting/layout dept was being reorganized around that time. IIRC the VMP was done while analog engineering's PCB designer was still physically located in the analog department. By the time the VCL was done (later) all the drafting resources had been consolidated into a single mechanical group for the whole company. Pretty much the same guys, and we were all in the same building so no excuses. Further it is the responsibility of the design engineer to approve the physical layouts.

I know from discussion with the better guitar amp engineers that with high gain tube guitar amps, PCB layout is a factor in the sound character. Crosstalk and leakage between high impedance stages is not at all accidental... Just like the rest of the sundry moving parts involved in voicing a guitar amp.

FWIW those two products were AMR, Peavey's recording products division, and IMO not too shabby.  That said there has been lots of low cost gear from all corners of the industry using tubes in some fashion to separate fools from their money.  I suspect Peavey drank from that well too, but I am pleased to say I didn't have anything to do with with any tube-lite products.   

JR
 
Hi John
Thanks so much for the detailed and historical information.  I always appreciated the build quality of the VMP and VCL2, these are simply top notch pieces.

I've heard that peavy did actually offer a stereo link mod, but I've never seen any schematic of it...  Anybody have this documentation?
 
> at great expense" although these days the EL panels are available at any 99 cent store as nightlights

They were common in 1969, and again today, but I didn't see any for a couple decades.

More to the point: where is your attack/release control? Inside the photo-resistor! And the complex time-constantS which work sweetly for audio are NOT standard recipes. When foto-R production was more experimental, Putnam could sort-out a few with long release-tails, which were probably contaminated vats. As foto-R consistency improved, you get boring abrupt time action. Peavey may well have had to research "special sauce".

the "magic" of the EL-panel as GR element --- except the magic is in the resistor, not the greenie. (Meek did not have the secret-sauce PbS.)

Screening against capacitive coupling is "obvious" in hindsight. Both the greenscreen and the foto-R have large active areas right out in the open, close to each other, with high signal on the greenie and high impedance at the foto-R.

Since this box "honors" the LA-2 plan, the LA-2 "stereo coupling" will work: short hi-Z nodes in the sidechain together. Since there is no trim (?), just jumper EL84 grids together.

For reference, here is Peavey's plan with somebody's markup and your nickname in the URL:
http://www.zmix.net/pub/VC-L2%20Schematic.pdf

> drop in a 12BH7

What is the heater-draw on a 12BH7? How are the heaters wired? I think your 12AX7 will light-up the room.

 
PRR said:
> at great expense" although these days the EL panels are available at any 99 cent store as nightlights

They were common in 1969, and again today, but I didn't see any for a couple decades.

More to the point: where is your attack/release control? Inside the photo-resistor! And the complex time-constantS which work sweetly for audio are NOT standard recipes. When foto-R production was more experimental, Putnam could sort-out a few with long release-tails, which were probably contaminated vats. As foto-R consistency improved, you get boring abrupt time action. Peavey may well have had to research "special sauce".

the "magic" of the EL-panel as GR element --- except the magic is in the resistor, not the greenie. (Meek did not have the secret-sauce PbS.)
I am not aware of any hand selection after the components were specified, but we had experience with LDRs in other applications. As I recall there were already a couple (opto-LDR) parts in the system used in older products. I suspect the LDR half was specified to be very similar to the original part. 

I never researched this personally but my general understanding is that the EL panel responds differently (better) than other light sources. Faster and more linear than incandescent, perhaps more linear than LED(?).  I suspect the sound character of the combination will be dominated first by release time (of the LDR) while the speed and linearity of the light source will influence attack and overall gain law.
Screening against capacitive coupling is "obvious" in hindsight. Both the greenscreen and the foto-R have large active areas right out in the open, close to each other, with high signal on the greenie and high impedance at the foto-R.

Since this box "honors" the LA-2 plan, the LA-2 "stereo coupling" will work: short hi-Z nodes in the sidechain together. Since there is no trim (?), just jumper EL84 grids together.

For reference, here is Peavey's plan with somebody's markup and your nickname in the URL:
http://www.zmix.net/pub/VC-L2%20Schematic.pdf

> drop in a 12BH7

What is the heater-draw on a 12BH7? How are the heaters wired? I think your 12AX7 will light-up the room.

I suspect a trim might have been needed if the stereo link became a production feature. With mechanical VU meters, the customers would be able to see small fractions of a dB imbalance between L/R. Not a major concern for dual mono operation.

This probably was a factor in the reluctance to re-release. While it may be hard for folks to believe, Peavey was not a big player in tube studio gear  ;D so despite these SKUs being branded AMR, they never received the love they (IMO) deserved.  That's life in the marketplace. 8)

JR


PS: I find it amusing that the boilerplate patent warning on the schematic refers to the one old DDT patent only. I am not aware of anything patentable about the VC/L, but a more correct standard warning is to list several and say "and others" in the warning. I recall it was a full time hassle for the legal clerk to keep track of which patents were used in which products. 
 
JohnRoberts said:
PS: I find it amusing that the boilerplate patent warning on the schematic refers to the one old DDT patent only. I am not aware of anything patentable about the VC/L, but a more correct standard warning is to list several and say "and others" in the warning. I recall it was a full time hassle for the legal clerk to keep track of which patents were used in which products. 

There is a patent notice on the old PULTEC eqs... you'll never guess what it referred to.... but take a guess!! I'll post the answer later
 
Hey John, any idea what the center frequency of the EQ section of the VMP-2 actually is? I have the manual but it just lists it as high and low.
 
zmix said:
There is a patent notice on the old PULTEC eqs... you'll never guess what it referred to.... but take a guess!! I'll post the answer later


The patent listed on the PULTEC was for the use of  NEGATIVE FEEDBACK in the amplifier....! The patent was held by Western Electric /  Bell Labs..

 
Crash said:
Hey John, any idea what the center frequency of the EQ section of the VMP-2 actually is? I have the manual but it just lists it as high and low.

My recollection is that they used simple bass and treble shelving type EQ so no center frequency per se.

The shelf frequencies were pretty typical but I wouldn't attempt to cite specific numbers from my vague memory.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
Crash said:
Hey John, any idea what the center frequency of the EQ section of the VMP-2 actually is? I have the manual but it just lists it as high and low.

My recollection is that they used simple bass and treble shelving type EQ so no center frequency per se.

The shelf frequencies were pretty typical but I wouldn't attempt to cite specific numbers from my vague memory.

JR

100hz and 10khz, IIRC...
 
So guys, is this a decent enough comp to consider buying second hand? Is there someone out there who could do the mentioned mods for me if necessary? I have the VMP-2 which I really like and I've read that the VC/L2 teams up really well with it??
Thanks,
Peter
 
If you are happy with the VMP, you should like the VC/L . The only mod I would consider is adding a link switch, to link the two channels for use in stereo applications.

JR
 
I know I am digging up an old thread here, but do any of you gents in the know, have knowledge as to whether the T4 out of an LA-2A would work in the VC/L-2? I know Peavey claims that they had a custom EL in their unit and my concern is that the correct replacement may not be available when the one in operation wears out.
 

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