poll: Does discrete circuitry sound better then IC circuitry?

[pucho812]

A very simple question that can really divide folks. No different than turning the gear off at the end of day or not. Might as well poll the masses and see how we really feel. Personally it's hard for me to pick one or or the other answer as I have heard great examples of both and I have also heard some bad examples of both. So without a deep dive, lets just do a surface question, does one way to skin the cat sound better or the other?

 

[living sounds]

I think it's a question of implementation.

And when it comes to creating a certain "sound" and taste "the right tool for the right job". For instance, on my console mixbus I still prefer the old Signetics NE5534. But I've got a DIY Pultec in the master insert chain with GAR1731 because I often like what they do to a mix.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I am not aware of any inherent difference between IC or discrete circuits other than that ICs can afford to be far more complex internally.

Sound quality depends on execution of specific circuits.

JR

 

[fallout]

Count me in as 'it depends'. I can't say one sounds better than the other.

 

[ruffrecords]

On the basis that 99.99% of IC designs have a class B output stage and a lot of well liked discrete designs are class A plus a lot of people swear forcing class B IC output stages into class A makes them sound better, I vote for discrete .

Cheers

Ian

 

[sahib]

Is the aim of the poll to find out how many people prefer discrete and how many IC or whatever the majority is the scientific proof?

We can probably re-configure the question like do the songs recorded on discrete sound better than the ones recorded on IC?

What is better?

 

[Brian Roth]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_many_angels_can_dance_on_the_head_of_a_pin?

Bri

 

[Gold]

Depends on implementation. I think IC opamp circuits on average have better chance at high sound quality because the design requirements are usually less than a ground up discrete build. A lot of the difficult design work was done by the IC designer.

 

[Matador]

I would have to answer "it depends" which isn't a choice.

I would hazard to guess that such a poll proffered to the general musical buying population would likely fall heavily under the "discrete" category, as that's what concerted marketing efforts have convinced them is better.

 

[JohnRoberts]

I would have to answer "it depends" which isn't a choice.

I would hazard to guess that such a poll proffered to the general musical buying population would likely fall heavily under the "discrete" category, as that's what concerted marketing efforts have convinced them is better.

Ask them about the sound quality of old battery powered portable transistor radios? Those were all class A.

JR

 

[pucho812]

Is the aim of the poll to find out how many people prefer discrete and how many IC or whatever the majority is the scientific proof?

We can probably re-configure the question like do the songs recorded on discrete sound better than the ones recorded on IC?

What is better?

The aim of this poll is to just gauge opinions. nothing too serious here. I know plenty of end users who will tell me things like that "insert console here" sounds good but at the same time will say that the topology behind it sounds awful. For example that Sony MXP3000 console sounds great but they hate the sonic of IC chips. Which is interesting because the Sony is all IC chips. Then they will tout how amazing discrete sounds but dislike equipment using discrete circuitry. opinions very, this we all know.

For me and my experience, Discrete offers somethings that IC's do not and vice verse. For example Discrete can run higher voltage rails then the typical opamps. Higher rails offer things too. My favorite is IC chip with a discrete follower to push current around.

What really cooks my noodle is one of the best mic pre's I ever heard in the modern world was a fresh(new) design that used a preamp chip and had DC servos after it so you could DC couple the circuit. Now mind you this is purely opinion about how amazing it sounded, but others would agree how good it sounded until they found out the truth on the subject that at it's core it was a preamp chip. Then all bets were off.

 

[Matador]

What really cooks my noodle is one of the best mic pre's I ever heard in the modern world was a fresh(new) design that used a preamp chip and had DC servos after it so you could DC couple the circuit. Now mind you this is purely opinion about how amazing it sounded, but others would agree how good it sounded until they found out the truth on the subject that at it's core it was a preamp chip. Then all bets were off.

I had the exact same experience. Back in 2015 I made an INA217 / DRV134 combination reference design PCB, that I ended up building into an 8 channel set of microphone preamps. I had placed it into a 3U rack, because it's what I had at the time spare. It had a massive toroid PSU transformer in it as again, it's what I had on hand salvaged from other equipment.

I ended up giving it to a coworker, and it ended up in a studio for some reason, and it got rave reviews, as they thought due to it's size and weight it was some transformer-coupled vintage design. The reality was that 99% of the space inside was blank, with 8 tiny PCB's and about $20 per channel of chips, resistors, and caps. And funny thing is it DID sound amazing, in a wire-with-gain way.

I also did a copy of the Great River MP2 which is essentially a transformer into two discrete op-amps wired in series with a massive bank of caps for coupling.

https://groupdiy.com/threads/great-river-mp-2-info-schematics-discussions.20333/post-617664

It didn't sound any better or worse despite being 100% discrete, and was 10000% more complex to get tuned and running with modern transistors (I had to build an entire rig just to match transistors), with 5-10x the BOM cost per channel.

 

[Gold]

The aim of this poll is to just gauge opinions. nothing too serious here. I know plenty of end users who will tell me things like that "insert console here" sounds good but at the same time will say that the topology behind it sounds awful. For example that Sony MXP3000 console sounds great but they hate the sonic of IC chips. Which is interesting because the Sony is all IC chips. T

No one seems to have a problem with the Neve 8068 either, which is IC based.

 

[Recording Engineer]

Yeah, I can’t do the poll because there’s no:
Neither, depends on implementation

 

[Speedskater]

Given that either can sound good.
A better question might be:
Which is a better design decision.

 

[fazer]

2520 with the transformers from my 2488 sound better on drums than the capi hybrid chip with buffers. The thing is my drum recording is minimal these days. I record some drums with a mackie 16 channel and thought everything sound meh when running from direct outs which has eq In circuit. I patch pre fade out , into an avid interface which is straight out of the mic pres and it sounded so much better. The channel in vsx 16 dulls the sound but pres alone aren’t bad. I like api pres with 2520’s but it’s the way the whole thing interacts with the transformers.

 

[Gustav Koonie]

No matter how much old-school enthusiasts advocate for transistors over integrated circuits, I’m always on the side of ICs.

The reason is simple: thermal distortion. All semiconductors inside, say, an operational amplifier, are on the same substrate.