Question for TedF - What compressor..

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Ted - if you could spare a moment could you have a quick think about this one...
There is a DIY opto compressor around called the What compressor.. this may or may not inherit some of the work you did on the original Joe Meek Opto Compressor.

If possible could I ask one thing...
If you weren't working to a price point... what additional upgrades or extra components would you have put in a DIY product like the What compressor??
 
It really doesn't need any component upgrades, I have made several of these all using different opamps and they all sound the same. The object of this compressor was to have something transparent once the amount of compression is set, and forget about it.

.........but some folks are compulsive about upgrading everything in sight so no doubt I'll be shouted down!!!!!
Stephen
 
at no price point we could dig up ol' Joe and clone his DNA so he can make his comp again

Ted, could you at least tell us what kinda of LDR he used?
 
Hmmmm.....

We used simple ORP12 cells... I used 'em in all the Joemeek stuff, but now I'm using some slightly higher impedance cells called Protech MLG5527. These have a much faster response time, yet retain the non-linearities of the old cells - a feature of cadmium sulfide.

The compressors that Joe used were of two types; one was a Westrex, or some sort of clone (I think Adrian Kerridge has the original one), with conventional vari-mu circuitry similar to Altec, the others were ORP12s hung across the 600 ohm audio with a flashlight bulb taped to it.
The bulb was powered by a 3 watt power amplifier driven from the 'downstream' side of the audio. As a compressor it was useable.... just.

In 1965 I built some slightly more sophisticated (!) devices where the bulb was driven by a transistor switcher circuit, and there was an adjustment for standing current. This worked OK, but my ability was limited and they suffered from temperature drift something 'orrible.

I'm not avoiding the question; it's a busy time and I need to have a look at this 'WHAT' compressor to make a sensible reply; give me a few hours. :sad:
 
Ted
You are a gentleman, a scholar and possibly an acrobat.
here is some stuff on the What

http://dt.prohosting.com/hacks/what.html
 
Ted is a Gentleman and a Scallop.

Adrian Kerridge.. haven't heard that name for a while! Lansdowne still there, or did they go the way of all things?

(PS, is it true that he had a brother named "Orson Kerridge"? -Stagecoach driver, I heard! :wink: )
 
The question was intriguing, so I had a good look.... It's embarassing to read so much about one's own work! David was very kind in his write-up; and he managed to catch most of the little features that make the old JM compressor sound the way it does.
But to get to the point.... The question was about what additional bits or features I would have added if there were no budget restrictions, and the answer is absolutely none.... Apart from the cheaper offerings in the old JM range, I never did work with budget as a major factor; but I'm a very firm believer in not putting in expensive bits just for the sake of it!

The original JM compressor was the result of a need for a stereo mastering compressor for a little video project I was doing in 1992; it was a travelogue of the West of England, and needed some gentle compression that I did not find in the gear I had at the time, so I built my own.
David picked up on the main points; the strange curve of the opto cell, and the dual time constants, but he missed a couple too!
The old SC2 had a slightly 'floppy' power supply that sagged with the demand of the LED drive servo! I did know about this, but it sounded wonderful!
Another big factor that David did approach, but made rather 'heavy weather' of, the sidechain filtering; it doesn't have much to do with hearing curves, it's more to do with voltage peaks and energy; to get compression that sounds right you need something like 'constant amplitude' in the sidechain feed. David chose a complicated filter arrangement that need not be anything like that, simple first order filtering is fine.
I have played with 'Vactrol' devices but prefer to stick to descrete opto cells and LEDs.
The WHAT Compressor also has this uncompressed side path for transients... No, I tried a few tricks like that but prefer careful control of the attack and release characteristic, once it's right there's no apparent loss of transients... unlike VCA types! :?

As a project, the WHAT compressor looks really good; it contains a host of good engineering ideas and will certainly work well. It differs from commercial design in that commercial equipment has to be as bomb-proof as possible; must be balanced in and out, and must be quick to produce, easy to test and very reliable.... not that it isn't! I think it's admirable.

Trying to comment and answer the question is difficult because we have all moved on from the 60s, and even from the late 90s... my current compressors are still optical, but the cell is in a 'bridge' circuit that allows me to 'lever' the compression ratio over an extreme range.
I like to think they are just as easy to use, and a lot prettier(!)
:grin:
 
'Scallop'.... my favourite fruit! (had some for lunch today!) :grin:
 
.
Great of you to pitch in, Ted. First-hand is the best info.
Was worried the 'dig up 'ol Joe' comment might have offended, as i assume you were friends...
Also just read a Ted F interview (complete with pic), somewhere on the web, and really enjoyed it.

OK, butt-kiss over. Thanks for the mental notes.
Paul
 
Hi Paul,
No offence at all! :grin:

Joe didn't have many friends... he was totally paranoid and quite scary.
But I did work with him; until he accused me (along with everyone else) of bugging his studio, stealing his ideas, setting up in competition, in fact all the paranoid things you could imagine. That was normal; he accused everyone around him, particularly the engineers at Decca. In the end it killed him of course. :cry:
 
i think Ted is thick skinned, that's why i made that remark about Joe. i've owned several JM comps and i've always found them enjoyable. i too use ORP12s (and nine others, including some _really_ old ones) switchable to change the compression curve, no other controls. nice comp

thanx for sharing the info Ted. much apriciated

.. Telstar spins in the background ..
 
Ted
Many many thanks for sharing...
Nice mention of you in a Tape Op article a few years ago by Malcom Toft, who in passing, mentioned you used to design consoles...
You kept that one quiet!!

Anyway thanks for the info - it really is appreciated
To me it's the "Why?" that always intrigues me rather than the "How?".

If I ever have a chance to repay the favour please shout - unfortunately my in-depth specialist knowledge is in designing and implementing BIG (and I mean BIG - 61 countires plus) accounting/finance and business intelligence systems... (and that goes for everyone...)
Unfortunately, I think my inbox is going to be a bit bare
 
my current compressors are still optical, but the cell is in a 'bridge' circuit that allows me to 'lever' the compression ratio over an extreme range.

where I can learn more about this? some schematics to take an idea?
 
As soon as I learn how to post a sketch directly into the posting :oops: I will show the bones of the 'bridge' circuit.
 
[quote author="TedF"]As soon as I learn how to post a sketch directly into the posting :oops: I will show the bones of the 'bridge' circuit.[/quote]
Ted
If you don't have a host
Post the sketch as a jpg (via a scanner) and upload it to http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/
(create a login and go from there)
Then when you have a link to a page with your graphic in it...
Just hit the "Img" button when you post a message (- next to the URL tage half way down the page)
Then when you have finished typing in the URL just hit the Img* button...
 
Haaah!
I managed to upload a sketch.... it's at:
http://groupdiy.twin-x.com/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=0
(or if it's not exactly there, look in my 'TedF jottings' album.)
The main point about the circuit is that the compression takes place in one leg of a bridge... the audio is amplified by a little class-A discrete amplifier and then into the op-amp. As the compression increases, the signal in the other leg has more effect, and effectively 'amplifies' the ratio.

The reason for the discrete amp is to reduce the gain requirement in the MC33078 and to make any distortion predominantly 2nd order. :grin:
 
thanx for share it Ted. I will have to simulate it or breadboard it to understand completally how it work.
 
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