living sounds
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
Are you sure many drummers have taken notice of your product and understand its benefits?
Resotune II
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Are you sure many drummers have taken notice of your product and understand its benefits?
In response to the new found interest I can sell the last tuner that I planned to keep for myself. I still have a RESOTUNE II loaner unit that I can use for my RESOTUNE museum freeing up one last production unit to sell.
My inner economist says to use an auction to let the free market determine the fair price for this now scarce commodity. I will not speculate about how my liberal progressive friends here think I should manage this.
I have already removed the paypal buy now button from my website and am telling email inquiries that it is no longer available, because it isn't.
RESOTUNE II S/N 0F5 is now open for bids. I will allow forum members some time to respond but not too much time, I need to clean this all up before the end of the year.
JR
[edit- I have one more customer asking to buy a RESOTUNE,,, I may include him in the bids... I'll start him at $95 listed price. /edit]
My inner economist says to use an auction to let the free market determine the fair price for this now scarce commodity. I will not speculate about how my liberal progressive friends here think I should manage this.
I have already removed the paypal buy now button from my website and am telling email inquiries that it is no longer available, because it isn't.
RESOTUNE II S/N 0F5 is now open for bids. I will allow forum members some time to respond but not too much time, I need to clean this all up before the end of the year.
JR
[edit- I have one more customer asking to buy a RESOTUNE,,, I may include him in the bids... I'll start him at $95 listed price. /edit]
Recording Engineer
Well-known member
How do we bid exactly?
By the way, I’m in for up to $250 for version III. I suspect you fully reside in the “completely done with it and ok with it” column though.
By the way, I’m in for up to $250 for version III. I suspect you fully reside in the “completely done with it and ok with it” column though.
Quite a few smartphones have stereo speakers and I wonder if Resotune could be a smartphone app for such phones. I don't know how the Resotune works, but I remember reading that it vibrates the drum skin with two speakers and measures the vibrations. To me it seems that modern smartphone would have the two speakers and microphone needed for the measurements. Of course it might be that the placement of the speakers and microphone on a smartphone is all wrong or the speakers or microphone aren't high quality enough. If it's feasible maybe somebody will develop Resotune app for smartphones with stereo speakers. Then again drummers might be too poor to have fancy phones with stereo speakers.
I have talked about this here before, written about it at length on my website, and you could read my patent (6,925,880 Roberts August 9, 2005).Heikki said:
The short version is that RESOTUNE does more than just identify the pitch of resonances. Years ago a friend of mine sold a smart phone application that effectively identified drum pitch. He was sued out of business by an electronic tuner gadget company claiming patent infringement, unjustly IMO, but he didn't have the resources to defend himself in court (patent litigation can be very expensive). I offered moral and modest financial support but he abandoned his effort and returned my money.
Trust me, for 15 years customers have asked for something as compact, and cheap as a smart phone application. During my second generation design cycle I did a bunch of experiments with trying to use less and/or smaller speakers in a more compact package (I do listen). My second generation is smaller and lighter than the first generation but uses the same two speakers, because smaller speakers just didn't couple reliably.
The most powerful aspect of RESOTUNE is that it isolates lugs for one at a time individual "Clear quality" measurements. "Clear" quality is a poorly understood metric unrelated to drum pitch, but in fact how well the lugs are matched to each other irrespective of pitch or voicing. A clear drum sound is hard to describe but you will appreciate the sound when you hear it.
Ten years ago I experimented with making a drum tuner work with only one speaker. I was able to identify note resonances and measure clear quality but it could not isolate the lugs for independent measurements. Clearing a drum with only one speaker involved chasing your tail around the lugs as the adjustments interacted (kind of like other conventional tuners behave now). The not so secret sauce about RESOTUNE is that the two loudspeakers, one on each side of the lug being measured and adjusted, acoustically couples to the drum head to isolate that one lug at a time. In case it isn't obvious the "clear" adjustment is performed after the lugs are tuned to desired pitch for voicing.
This clear quality is a novel measurement that AFAIK only RESOTUNE uses. I discovered that I could excite the drum head with speakers, then measure the signal coming back from the excited drumhead. Peaks in the amplitude of this return signal is obviously the drumhead resonances, the extra step is measuring the phase shift of this return signal and using that as a reference to match the other lugs to each other with. A sweet aspect of measuring this phase shift is that I can literally tell the user what direction to tweak the lug for optimal match results based on phase lead or lag. An improvement I made several years ago to this clear adjustment procedure is updating the clear reference to the strongest amplitude return. This requires two passes around the drumhead to make sure all the lugs are optimized to the same "best" clear reference but it is well worth it (IMO).
Sorry about TMI, for even more I had a prototype working based on a DSP platform and using FFT. The DSP processor had a built in 16b dac so I was able to generate multiple sine waves (8 or ten at a time). Using FFT amplitude I could quickly blast the drum with a spread of tones, read the return, and zero in on desired resonances. This would dramatically reduce time to identify resonances, and measure two or more at the same time. While I had the rough prototype working (years ago) I ran out of enthusiasm to throw even more time and money at this under appreciated effort (I am old and tired).
====
Back on topic... I was going to keep the very last production unit for myself, but remembered that I have a loaner unit (same unit I loaned to Gary Hebert of THAT Corp VCA fame). I can now sell that last production unit and maybe scrape together one or two more but I am flat out of key components. I will save some key components (like speakers and processor boards) for warranty support but the design has been well behaved after years in the field.
JR
PS: I apologize if I am breaking forum rules talking about selling units here, but I am trying to get out of this business. For no apparent reason new customers are now coming out of the woodwork all of a sudden. 8)
I would love to see somebody pick up my work and continue it. My plan from day one was not to do this myself. The patent application was so some big company with deep pockets could control competition. I proved that the technology works but the world did not beat a path to my door... I approached Yamaha over a decade ago unsuccessfully but I understand NIH syndrome (I used to reject outside ideas at Peavey :Recording Engineer said:
). I have abandoned maintenance payments on my patent years ago but it will expire in a few years anyhow.
The technology is free for anybody to use (but not the name).
JR
living sounds
Well-known member
Now I want one even more.
Maybe raising money via kickstarter or a similar venue and then paying some young enthusiasts to take over with you receiving licensing fees will work?
I think drummers would buy this if they knew about it, grasped the benefits and had access via local distribution. Unfortunately in today's online economy marketing seems to be everything. Google "drum tuner" and you get a list of products hyped in fake top 5 lists that cannot do what Resotune does.
I do occasionally write for one of Europe's biggest online music tech journals and would be happy to try and get a review in.
Anyway, not trying to persuade you. ;D
Maybe raising money via kickstarter or a similar venue and then paying some young enthusiasts to take over with you receiving licensing fees will work?
I think drummers would buy this if they knew about it, grasped the benefits and had access via local distribution. Unfortunately in today's online economy marketing seems to be everything. Google "drum tuner" and you get a list of products hyped in fake top 5 lists that cannot do what Resotune does.
I do occasionally write for one of Europe's biggest online music tech journals and would be happy to try and get a review in.
Anyway, not trying to persuade you. ;D
Scodiddly
Well-known member
JR, are you going to autograph that last one before it goes out the door?
That's life...living sounds said:
I have the capital, but not the will... last thing I want is an employee or even worse a business partner (been there done that).
I have been willing to license the technology forever but without the patent still in force it is free to use, so why would somebody pay for it?
For TMI, I recall talking with Dan Dugan (guy who invented modern automatic mixers) about licensing his technology for use by Peavey. I would have loved to partner with the famous industry icon. His patent was about to expire and I asked him for ammunition to support Peavey paying him for public domain technology. His response that we couldn't design one without him, which was exactly the wrong thing to say to the wrong person (I got an improvement patent on the automatic mixer I designed for Peavey without Dan's assistance.) :
I am very familiar with the machinations of MI retailing (15 years at Peavey). In the years (decades) since retailing has gotten even weaker (looks like Guitar center is considering another bankruptcy).
I shut down my paid click promotion several months ago... I paid google too much money, for far too long. I probably barely exist on Google these days.
Of course I could raise my price several times current, and spend a pile of money on advertising and promotion, but I don't roll that way (for better and worse).
I have a decent review on my website... http://circularscience.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/Extensive_Review_of_Resotune_II_-_CompactDrums.pdf
Back 15 years ago I approached Modern Drummer with my first generation RESOTUNE and the luddite technical editor there, dismissed it as not worth sharing with the drumming community.
Don't worry, I haven't made this decision lightly and am not easily swayed (its like you guys don't know me). ;D
JR
I actually signed a couple of these for customers a few months ago when I first mentioned EOL.Scodiddly said:
JR
JohnRoberts said:I would love to see somebody pick up my work and continue it. My plan from day one was not to do this myself. The patent application was so some big company with deep pockets could control competition. I proved that the technology works but the world did not beat a path to my door... I approached Yamaha over a decade ago unsuccessfully but I understand NIH syndrome (I used to reject outside ideas at Peavey :
I have abandoned maintenance payments on my patent years ago but it will expire in a few years anyhow.
John I'm sorry that the project you developed and your invention didn't get the full interest it deserved.
I also feel that a bigger company could benefit of making a deal with you and produce and market it globally.
I never used the Resotune but I watched the videos and the listened to the sound samples and it's an incredible Tool.
I'm not a drummer and I almost don't do recording work nowadays that's why I never bought one. If I was still working in a recording studio I would definitely want one.
I'm amazed how drummers and studios didn't get more interested in the unit to be honest, maybe financial constraints from musicians (most musicians/drummers are poor), but there's other drum tuning tools that although much more primitive and limited than the Resotune seem to be selling like those pressure/tension meters. Strange
I would be happy if your efforts had achieved success and not become a burden.
I just did some searches online on reviews and ranking of Drum Tunners and strangely no list mentions the Resotune.
Most attention is given to "Tone-Bot" and "Drum Dial".
I'm pretty sure investment in strong marketing is the reason for that, which is a huge investment for a single individual
Most attention is given to "Tone-Bot" and "Drum Dial".
I'm pretty sure investment in strong marketing is the reason for that, which is a huge investment for a single individual
Because I stopped paying for search engine placement. :Whoops said:
You probably mean "tune bot" and "Drum Dial?... they both pay well for those placements.
Steve Fisher Inventor of Drum Dial, purchased both the first generation and current version of RESOTUNE for his own use... For a time, I sold drum dials on my website for customers to rough tune their drums with, then finish fine tuning with RESOTUNE (actually I traded him drum dials for RESOTUNES so I had a number of them to convert to cash.)
I have nothing nice to say about the Tune bot guys, you can probably read my mind. The drum tuning industry is pretty small.
Actually it gets factored into the retail price for the SKU, what do you think a cheap electronic sniffer cost to manufacture? Several dollars of that retail price is going to Google. If I was charging a few extra hundreds of dollars per unit I could win the click bid auctions, but I am not going to pay several dollars per click. The bid auctions are probably getting worse this time of the year, as Christmas shopping heats up.
JR
living sounds
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
Probably because they won't have to do the R&D work you already did.
It's not about the review but about the free advertising this provides.
of course I value my IP, but I have been generous about sharing how RESOTUNE works. My trade secrets are no secret.living sounds said:
Thanks for explaining that. :
I spent 15 years at Peavey when most music industry magazines would bend over backwards to keep us happy hoping to win ad placements (and no doubt some of that ad spending was a quid pro quo to be treated well by the magazines. As a small company with minuscule ad budget I didn't get much love. I have watched the drum industry magazines slowly fade away over the last 15 years. I did a lot of small display ads in several of them over the years. Lately some digital email ad blasts.
These days it's about slick social media advertising and perhaps some high profile artist endorsements.
I hooked up with one big name drummer back in the early days (who is still gigging and shall remain nameless here). He was dumber than a stump... he could not tune his own drums even with my hand holding. The first generation RESOTUNE was not as slick as the second generation but still not rocket science. Some of these guys live down to the most pejorative stereotypes about drummers.
I am pleased to have had many intelligent conversations with drummers who did not follow the stereotypes. For some reason a large percentage of people who decide to make custom drum designs find me. Even if i can't help them it's interesting, I have one old friend who sold his drum company to Peavey so I learned some drum design stuff from him.
JR
living sounds
Well-known member
JohnRoberts said:
Does the thing work? The marketing looks pretty good and you can buy it at thomann (which is now the most important thing for selling music tech in Europe). Thomann owns most of the relevant European online boards and also (editorially independant) online journals...
The Tunebot falls into the category of what I call "note sniffers". This can be done by a smart phone application but like i shared a friend of mine was sued out business, selling his smart phone note sniffer app.living sounds said:
The note sniffer is arguably one level more accurate than mechanical lug torque or drumhead tension measurements, because it ignores mechanical imperfections in real world physical drums. For best results drum sniffers need very consistent drum hit location relative to lug being measured and consistent drum hit strike force. Properly done you can get a drum into decent general tune, but this does not perform the "clear" quality measurement that RESOTUNE does.
I have told you how RESOTUNE does it but not exactly what is going on. Drums because of the round drumhead, supports non-harmonic overtones. Higher overtones follow different non-integer path lengths creating unmusical ratios. But this isn't even the worst part... even with lugs nominally in tune with each other at lower resonances, the higher upper overtones can be enough out of tune to create dissonances from the slightly different overtones interfering with each other.
My "Clear" adjustment does not literally measure and adjust all these higher overtones (which is impractical, trust me) but uses a much easier short cut to reinforce lower resonances while suppressing dissonance from mistuned higher resonances. The "clear" sound we all want still has the higher overtones, just not multiples of each one interfering with each other.
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@ 12afael your bid is registered...
In light of the multiple requests now after I have officially sold out... I think I may scrape together one more unit in addition to last one I was going to keep for myself, making two more RESOTUNEs available to sell. (I still need to confirm that I can do this, I'm running out of several key parts.)
I am not doing this for the money (sadly), while I much prefer converting inventory to cash than just discarding it. I may do a first come first served, or lottery. I am trying to clean this up before the end of the calendar year. While I will be supporting warranty service for the full contracted period (because that's easy).
warranty said:
Again thanks to all for their interest.
JR
Pip
Well-known member
I missed the email but I will take a flier that the bidding is still going.
$200.00
$200.00
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