Saul Walker Seminar

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joaquins

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Feb 25, 2012
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I'm having this week a seminar in charge of Saul Walker, founder of API, with one week of duration with 20 talks of 1.5hs aprox each, today the topics were some introductions to electronics for whose aren't so in the theme, because is made for acoustics/sound engineers. For what I can say to you about he is that the man is a really nice person and talk about a couple of anecdotic stuff and details of 512c.

He told me about why the change from 550 to 550A (about switches that went out of production and they take the need to ask for production new custom switches and add a couple of bands)

In the 512c they added the led vumeter and took the extra other op amp on the ic to add a servo and eliminate the pop on the polarity switch which was a problem to customers on earlier models of the 512. They keep the decoupling caps there so the sound change as little as possible, since they doesn't have DC anymore.

JR won't like his approach but he says that they circuits are like instruments and no precision electronics (wire with gain).

As a fun fact he was hoping his designs to have about 5 years of validity before be replaced for better designs, never imagine that 40 years later they would be what they are.

More to came next days, I will keep you updated.

JS

PD: Anyone in Buenos Aires could came to the untref all days this week since 9am to 6pm. Let me know so we meet...
 
Todays talks started a bit late because of a confusion with the cab who supposed to get him in the morning so instead of starting 9am it was more like 12:30pm, he seemed to took it fine and started with all the best humor.

Todays he spokes about electromagnetic components of an audio chain, inductors, transducers, transformers, etc. and tube stuff, first the principles and then about tube circuit design. Really interesting, a short presentation on the 2503 which was useful for me, but nothing new to mention here, about it's resistance and such...

I'll keep you posted, tomorrow starting with opamps, semiconductors, transistors. Next day audio ICs, audio I/O, active filters and equalizers, should get more intresting each day, last day for preamps, mixing, dynamics and grounding/shielding.

JS

 
No, I'm not.

But at the university are people filming and recording properly, with two nice cameras, one to the stage and other to his desk where he does some stuff with NI ELVIS II and myDAQ, and audio from the mixer. Don't know when they will be available, but a lot of hours of video so doesn't know the way to make them available to anyone if I have the chance... But I guess we will find the way.

JS
 
It would be great to get a theory of operation of the 550 eq electronics.    I'm working on some 550A'S right now and just replacing  electrolytic caps is not bring them back to life.  I'm trying to figure out why the audio goes dead when the filter(50hz-15khz) is  switched in circuit.  The Transistor buffers are working and caps are good or replaced.

I'm interested in a theory of operation.  I would love to be there.  Thanks for posting about the seminar.

 
Fazer,
I usually find previous "tech work" to be the cause of issues in API modules.  Solder splashes, semiconducting flux gobs, and poor trace re-work are big issues.  Since you have more than one module you can do some comparisons looking for resistance too high or low on your baddie module.
Mike
 
fazer said:
It would be great to get a theory of operation of the 550 eq electronics.    I'm working on some 550A'S right now and just replacing  electrolytic caps is not bring them back to life.  I'm trying to figure out why the audio goes dead when the filter(50hz-15khz) is  switched in circuit.  The Transistor buffers are working and caps are good or replaced.

I'm interested in a theory of operation.  I would love to be there.  Thanks for posting about the seminar.

I've seen that before.  But it's been long enough I forgot what I did.  I'll have to search my notes and get back to you
 
darn... wife and I were supposed to take a little trip to B.A. this month but postponed it til August.  Oh well, if you do ever get your hands on the video(s) please do post them if allowed to do so.
 
I will post any info I can, most of his slices will be available to show but some not, I guess the ones we are all interested but I'll try to make something about.

Tomorrow he will talk about eqs, so maybe something about but I don't know if your specific doubts would be touched fazer.  Of course I can't put everything here because is a lot of talk but I will post the highlights I consider more important.

Today I had the chance to have lunch with him, some life stories, he was part of the navy in WWII working in some secret projects and such, then when he went out he went to the university and a professor he had ask him to work in the lab, so he worked in the lab at day with some students more advanced than him under his supervision and go to classes at night. Then he told me about a couple of his first design in the audio world as a automatic disc cutter and some recording system for a broadcasting publicity company. Well, really nice experience.

Today talks where about tube circuits (continuing the one from yesterday), opamps and general applications, semiconductors theory and devices. Of course each topic is to talk a year about it and it's all putted in 1:30hs so a lot more to see about, but well, I think is more the experience than the topics it self at least this 3 days. Tomorrow he will start with some transistor design, audio IC and applications, filters and equalizers are the topics planned for the day.

I'll keep you posted.

JS

PS:mitsos, too bad for you, but good for your wife I guess...
 

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When I have something I'll post it.

  Today I had lunch with him and we were talking a lot, the electronics professor of this university was with us, just the three of us, and he didn't catch a lot of stuff, some because of the language and some because he didn't knew his circuits, I had my tablet with me so I pick it out and start to talk over the circuits in the coffee after lunch. Before of that we were talking about his developments before API and he did work a lot with digital stuff, a plane for the navy that doesn't had a pilot, with the first aircraft compliant computer developed by he and his partners. That was at the time of WWII or some years later and the program was canceled right before the first take off of the plane without pilot, when they were ready to try it out. Thats because a change in the government and some political stuff.
  Then he started to work in a desktop digital calculator with transistors that they only know if they where NPN or PNP as only specifications. Some other projects in digital stuff on till mid 60's where he started with API and even then some to automate his consoles.
  Starting to talk about audio he told me a couple of stories like a problem with a 525 that was in japan and he worked a lot to simulate the problem in their labs, which ended being a miss wiring that was fine in the schematics, but wrong in the actual unit. Then about total recall, one of his first approach (besides switches instead of potentiometers) to broadcasting EQs was to have a slot on the eq where a board with trimers was inserted and there you have your presets. Then he designed a voltage controlled eq to his automated console (I think something like 559 but he doesn't remember correctly, if someone has the scheme would be really appreciated) His approach for this was with 2 LDR in one led using one of the LDR in the feedback network to linearize the other, the strange thing is that he told me that after I told him an idea which I started to develop some time ago about something really similar, my approach initially was with an arduino because programing a couple of code lines is easier than build the circuit to look how it works in real life, more than anything to look at the tracking between both LDR, but the my idea was to do it analog with control voltage input so he told me a couple of detail about his design. I will bring the project here when I get it more or less stable.

  At the seminar he spoke about transistor circuits, audio ICs and applications and filters. Tomorrow will be eq, comps, mixing, preamps and maybe grounding. A couple of interesting facts was about FPAA (something like FPGA but analog) which I would start looking, if anybody has some experience with those I'd like to know about, Saul didn't use those but he knew about it's existence and told us, I didn't knew about that.
  He talk about the Neve theory about we hear above 20kHz. According to Walker it isn't that but we hear the filter that's used to cut over 20kHz and we don't hear the filter of 100kHz so it does sound better but because in-band effects.
  He talked about the acoustical properties of the sources we record aren't the same as the speakers that we use, like a horn of a trumpet or a piano wood board and we shouldn't try to make them sound like the sources themselves but try to sound good, nice... He has a really artistic point of view of all audio electronics design as they are one more musical instrument rather than a way to reproduce the original signal. Anything of this is really new but he told that in a way I didn't thought it before, really nice to hear the opinion like somebody like him in this area.
  Talking about 550 he told us that he thought about a 'new way to looking and definition of filters characteristics' because the eq works so different than filter that in some cases using standard filtering to eq wouldn't behave as expected, so between the things he did he took an approach to have no feedback in the filtering network so when clipping no changes are made to the circuit and recovering from clipping would be easy and fast. Around 1975 they had to change the board on the 550 so he tried to replace the buffers with ICs but didn't went well in listening test so it was taken back to the original discrete buffers, he had designed the board to use sockets so the only thing they needed to do was to made a new board for the buffers that fits in the socket.
  Talking about audio ICs he did say that THAT chips are a good solution for strange environments where anybody can connect anything to anywhere and have no problems, but in controlled environments you could get as good or better with much simpler solution. Other than that nothing out of the book, his personal opinions about ICs are really good and he only recommend using discrete when is completely necessary because there is no IC that does what we want or we are trying to copy something that was originally designed with discrete instead of ICs.

  One of the general stuff about design I would highlight about he is the care and the attention he pays to clipping, he said one of the first days 'the reason of my designs sound good is because they don't clip' and with +30dBu output capability why should they? right? but even taking that precaution about avoiding clipping he also takes a lot of precautions about clipping recovering properties and it's relation with feedback, even more when non linear feedback is used like transformers inside the feedback loop. He mention me a Neve design with feedback across the transformer that used partial feedback across the transformer and partial feedback without the transformer so getting to the saturation point of the core is something it would be recovered just when the signals goes down and in that  time the gain in the amp doesn't go anywhere because it get out of feedback. So lesson learned, take care of feedback, clipping and it's relationship! avoiding clipping and having a good, fast and reliable recovery from that state. It's not new but is one of the design aspects I would say he pays more attention.

Nothing more to say, I'm really tired and don't want to wright anymore, just eat something and go to sleep. Really nice and loooong day.

JS
 
Well, friday was the last day of this seminar,

  He spoked a little between class A and class AB and his opinion on the topic, using class A in nominal operation that turns into class AB with high peaks and more talk on the clipping stuff, so, he designing the amplifiers to do class A for the optimal point but not burn a lot of power using class AB. Also he made a point on the sources of class AB distortion coming from improper PS decoupling because of current shape more than compensation.

  Going to equalizers he took the approach of proportional Q so the eq is affecting the same freq bands in all the gains, instead of doing a filter and then add or subtract from the program. Also he pointed his preference about mirror curves rather than symmetric ones. In graphics he specifies that matching the bands to be as one at higher boost/cut instead of separating two peaks is a must because of phase shift.
  From that he went to phase shift to group delay and the problems with that, we are not so sensitive as phase shift it self but group delay, making us confuse what we are hearing if the time of a part of the spectrums comes before or after from the rest of the same signal, and as we are more sensitive to time of the signal than amplitude. Also because we are moving in the space where the speakers are we may compensate the errors of those but not the ones from the material it's coming to them. Speakers are fixed sources of distortion but material is changing and we can't compensate that. A thing he told us to look for is how much time we can listen to something without getting tired even if it's sounding good or not. About the distortion generated in eq he marked about HF boosting for example are making a differentiation that may build spikes that weren't there before in the signal, to avoid that low Q makes low phase shift and no/less artifacts are created, "don't distort the image, just shadowing".
  The shape of the filters in the 550 wouldn't be possible without the switches, not possible to do them with pots because too many things changing at the same time, but doing it with switches takes them to need caps with more precision so every 550 sound the same with the same configuration, with continuos varying parametric you would match it with the pot.
  From the components used he spoke about tempco being a source of shift of the freq and amplitude in a slow way but  the voltage coefficient (much smaller than temp) being a source of THD and that's why it's important. Real inductor Vs gyrator, Johnsons noise vs active noise, saturating the core vs clipping. High voltage from inductors when unloaded fast aren't done with gyrator but shouldn't be a problem in normal working situation. Real inductors has different resistance for each frec, not gyrators, temperature varying the values.
  Butterworth filters being preferred to maintain time relationship for example at the zobel networks for transformers.

  DC servos instead of caps or transformers aren't recommended in connection to the output world, they are ok inside the box where environment is controlled, if the outside environment is controlled is ok too. He recommended non polar caps for the signal coupling and tantalum too. For some big broadcasting companies only accept tantalum and not aluminum electrolytic are accepted.

  When choosing opamps IMD is a problem, sometimes no data on datasheet, hard to measure, affects audio, transient created within the opamp not corrected by NFB. The fewer the active components and less open loop gain, the less likely to have IMD and use less feedback, this is why less NFB is better for him, and discrete sometimes better than IC. With more active devices, you need more feedback and more un-linearities to correct.
  He spoked about some 2515 DOA or something like that, which had less open loop gain, it was better than 2520 but not sufficiently to go into production, if someone has more info please make it public!

  In dynamics he mentioned his approaches and creation of the blackmer cell, he did a lot of talk about time constants, as sources of distortion and in lunch we were discussing the 525 approach of automatic release, depending with frequency content.

  For summing amps he said switching should be between resistor and bus and preferred to go to ground for the end of the resistor to maintain the load on the source constant and reduce picking up noise and radiating to other resistors next to it. A cap to avoid DC shift when switching was recommended. An remote electronic switch was recommended instead of mechanical switch so the switching occurs as close to the bus as possible, also preferred an electronic switch rather than a relay because of speed and softens of switching. He showed P15A4684 datasheet as an example, he says it's ok because no voltage being applied there and should be less noise than a discrete one made from FETs.

About ground and shielding he prefer to connect all shield to chassis and no reference from the outside to local ground, use differential input even with unbalanced sources. For non differential outputs balanced take the chassis as reference.

  That would be all the last day talk. I'm really proud and touched of having the chance of knowing such a designer, I'm really grateful of UnTreF to giving that opportunity. After he finished we went next to him to talk a little bit more and say goodbye, he is a really nice person, too bad this already finished.

JS
 
The Blackmer cell is the dbx VCA that David Blackmer invented while working for API. API declined to pursue it (?) so he started DBX... the rest is how they say history. API could have owned the VCA but declined.

One point he touched on in passing, one positive characteristic of the API consoles was high headroom (or freedom from clipping) , achieved with higher voltage PS rails.

Congrats on getting to spend some time with a man who was in the trenches of early solid state console design.

JR
 
JohnRoberts said:
The Blackmer cell is the dbx VCA that David Blackmer invented while working for API. API declined to pursue it (?) so he started DBX... the rest is how they say history. API could have owned the VCA but declined.

One point he touched on in passing, one positive characteristic of the API consoles was high headroom (or freedom from clipping) , achieved with higher voltage PS rails.

Congrats on getting to spend some time with a man who was in the trenches of early solid state console design.

JR

  Thanks, it was a really nice experience, he also was in the early days of digital development since WWII working at the navy, interesting stuff about that too...

  He said that he was involved at the beginning of the development process and it ended being the Blackmer cell, not that he designed it completely, I know Blackmer has the patent, I only write like this to do it shortly, but you are right.
  The headroom in API consoles more than really high rails is from it's 1:3 output transformer and a high power output device that allows them to drive standard loads without clipping. He did pay a lot of attention in that but I put it on earlier posts so I didn't write more about that in my last post. He did talk a lot about clipping, how to avoid it and how much attention should be payed to the behavior of recovery from clipping. He talked about some Neve approaches to that, when using NFB at the output transformer.

JS
 
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