Seeking Penny & Giles Legacy Fader Information

[jeffbro]

I'm currently trying to find a replacement for a 104mm stereo master fader in a GML automation system. Sadly, GML disavows all knowledge of their old automation systems. Since the automation has not been used in 20 years my plan is to install a regular non-vca fader. The only technical literature I can find is for the 3000 Series, but there are lots of faders out there from different, older series like the 1000 Series. My problem is that I need to determine if mounting holes and overall physical sizes are compatible with the fader I need to replace.

Can anyone point me to a source of P&G technical information for older faders?

 

[pucho812]

What’s the fader part number?

 

[jeffbro]

What’s the fader part number?

The faders were custom made by GML using P+G for their

 

[jeffbro]

Sorry, my cat pressed Post Reply before I was finished. Damn cats!

They are 104mm faders custom made by GML using P+G parts and their own metallic enclosure holding some of the automation muting logic. So, no part number, even no GML part number.

 

[Brian Roth]

You might try contacting these folks. They are the USA distributor for P&G. Dale Manquen passed away, but I understand his son is continuing the business.

http://www.manquen.net/audio/
On this page, I see mention of GML parts:

http://www.manquen.net/audio/index.php?page=34
Bri

 

[jeffbro]

You might try contacting these folks. They are the USA distributor for P&G. Dale Manquen passed away, but I understand his son is continuing the business.

http://www.manquen.net/audio/
On this page, I see mention of GML parts:

http://www.manquen.net/audio/index.php?page=34
Bri

Thanks, Brian. I had forgotten about the Manquen P&G association. That's possibly a good lead.

 

[zamproject]

I'm really not sure the design was P&G except the CP (or carbon ?) track print that is fixed on the side of the assembly coming from the 1000 serie ?
This is an unique mechanical integration which won't allow standard 120mm spacing hole fader at the front panel (whatever 100 or 104mm fader travel is)
You'll need a new frontpanel or drilling holes in the original one I suppose, which seem a sandwich assembly, with blind fixing screw, new drill won't hurt aesthetic.
Also finding stereo motor fader (2xaudio log + servo track + touch track) is close to impossible, at least last time I check for my automation few years back.

What is the issue with the actual fader ?!? maybe it can be fixed ?

 

[musika]

jeffbro,

I have the catalog... about 50 pages. Is there a certain section you would like to see?

 

[musika]

Here are some dimension screen prints of the different series of P&G faders until I can get the time to scan this catalog in the future and put it into the Tech Docs section for you.

 

[jeffbro]

I'm really not sure the design was P&G except the CP (or carbon ?) track print that is fixed on the side of the assembly coming from the 1000 serie ?
This is an unique mechanical integration which won't allow standard 120mm spacing hole fader at the front panel (whatever 100 or 104mm fader travel is)
You'll need a new frontpanel or drilling holes in the original one I suppose, which seem a sandwich assembly, with blind fixing screw, new drill won't hurt aesthetic.
Also finding stereo motor fader (2xaudio log + servo track + touch track) is close to impossible, at least last time I check for my automation few years back.

What is the issue with the actual fader ?!? maybe it can be fixed ?

Right, the track block and guide rails are P+G. It's just the enclosure and an internal PCB that are Massenburg.

The problem is intermittency in the left channel. Inspection of the track block reveals no defects which just leaves the wipers and the track-to-wire solder joints. If I could find the correct wiper assembly I might be OK but I think the wiper assembly might be custom to GML.

My preferred solution is to find an alternate fader and get a couple. The stereo master fader is a single point of failure that puts the studio out of business and it would be good to have a replacement on hand.

 

[jeffbro]

Here are some dimension screen prints of the different series of P&G faders until I can get the time to scan this catalog in the future and put it into the Tech Docs section for you.

Musika, Your booklet is exactly what I have been searching for! Let me examine the pages you have kindly provided, they may give the information I need. Could you post a shot of the front cover?

And while we are on the topic, what's the deal with the fader numbering? They all seem to have a series number (the key for which is called out in the data sheet) and a long "D" number which I don't understand at all.

 

[musika]

hmmm... I don't know about the numbering scheme as I really haven't looked at this catalog in ages. I'll look and see if something clicks.

In the meantime if there is something that you think you would like from the catalog I can snap some photos and post.

... added a photo of the 6000 series (motorized) dimension page.

 

[musika]

...maybe you can eliminate a series by looks?

 

[jeffbro]

...maybe you can eliminate a series by looks?

Well that's why your catalog pages are helpful. Without having examples of the older types of faders in my hand to measure, it's impossible to tell if they will fit in the console I'm working on. Your catalog pages are providing the dimensional data I need.

I've been in touch with Curtis Wright and they,, like so many companies, say they have no information their older products. What a waste, and what a lot of unnecessary work for today's technicians. I did learn that the "D" numbers are bespoke for each customer and therefore cannot be decoded.

Could I ask you to post pictures of the pages for the 1100, 1500, 1900, and 2100 series where they show the option selection matrix (what I would call the part number template callout)?

 

[zamproject]

Inspection of the track block reveals no defects which just leaves the wipers and the track-to-wire solder joints. If I could find the correct wiper assembly I might be OK but I think the wiper assembly might be custom to GML.

Wiper probably lose there -spring- tension by the time.
If fix some non conventional fader assembly (70' studer) by gently re bending the brushes
Maybe you can fix it that way ?

 

[jeffbro]

Wiper probably lose there -spring- tension by the time.
If fix some non conventional fader assembly (70' studer) by gently re bending the brushes
Maybe you can fix it that way ?

I thought that, too, but 2 attempts at retensioning the wiper brushes have not resolved the problem, hence my desire to get a replacement.

 

[zamproject]

Is the audio cut random within the travel or at precise position like full top or bottom ?

 

[kags]

I believe East West Studios has a Neve with GML that is in excellent condition, thanks to their chief, Lawrence Malchose
Lawrence has been open to outside consulting before, so it might be worth contacting him: [email protected]

Revolution Recording in Canada also has a Neve with GML, I believe
REVOLUTION RECORDING
36 Laing St.
Toronto, ON M4L 2N2
Tel: 647-352-4213

 

[jeffbro]

Is the audio cut random within the travel or at precise position like full top or bottom ?

The fault occurs at any point in the travel. One moment it works and then the lightest touch, even a mosquito landing on the knob, will cause the left side to drop out.

The last time I went into it I removed and restripped the several tiny stranded wires that connect to the track block. Since then no more trouble.

But, since failure of this one single part can close the studio I am trying very hard to find a non-GML fader to have as backup in case of emergency.

I'm very grateful to all who have spoken up. In the last hour I made contact with someone at Curtis Wright who thinks he knows of some old catalogs in a cabinet at the factory where he will be visiting tomorrow, Fingers crossed and waiting with bated breath.

 

[zamproject]

@kags
Maybe I over paranoid about confidentiality (and spam), I'll personal won't like my email published by another person on a public forum... if this Lawrence give clearance it's ok, otherwise just drop it to the OP by private message and delete/edit the email in your post