Separated by a common language/humour?

[rob_gould]

humour (I even included the unnecessary "u")

Hilarious! Best joke I've heard all day ;-)

 

[DaveP]

Americans will usually provide obvious clues that they are joking, whereas not being obvious is part of the joke for Brits.

krcwell, has summed up Brit humour very well, we like jokes that simmer then come back and hit you where you least expect it!

Having said that, we also love American comedians too.  When I was a kid, everyone used to watch "Sunday night at the London Palladium" on the TV.  I remember one American comic who was top of the bill (but not his name unfortunately), he used to specialise in "My Wife"  jokes.  This is the one I remember:  My wife is so fat, one day I decided to walk around her to see what was on the other side,  while we were laughing at that image, he delivered the punchline, "then I met a guy coming round the other way!"

Sounds pretty tame now but his timing, facial expression and delivery  had us rolling on the floor.  I still remember it 50 odd years later so he made an impression.

I'm beginning to wonder if it it wasn't Bob Newhart, his humour is very close to Brit humour, deadpan.

Best
DaveP

 

[JohnRoberts]

Yes I am also impressed by the language skill of our many non-english speaking members. 

I can get by well enough to drink in several languages from immersion during visits to several countries, but that is not the same as participating in technical conversations in a foreign language,  were word nuance can make a difference.

For one example about nuance in technical english, I'm dealing with a UL safety standard and they describe the three leads found in common mains outlets as grounded, ungrounded, and grounding?    Apparently "grounding" means safety ground, "grounded" means neutral (power return), and "ungrounded" means line (hot power feed).... I don't know if someone was trying to amuse themselves with word play, or they seriously think that is clear language appropriate for a technical specification.  :
=======

Conversely I recall from customer correspondence with my kit company back in the '70s and 80's how weak the writing skills of American college (engineering) students were.  I suspect in the decades since they have only declined.

JR

 

[miszt]

political correctness is important, because it makes a distinction between words used in a derogatory fashion, intended to cause psychological harm, and words which are simply descriptive labels.


sure it doesn't change the challenges that people face, but it does help draw a line; calling someone "dumb" is clearly derogatory, and in a society where equality is considered important (despite the actions of gov which clearly show equality is irrelevant where $£€ is concerned), in a society which aspires to equality it is unacceptable to behave with prejudice towards someone, or use their differences against them.

 

[ruffrecords]

There is also a huge divide between American English and British English and I don't mean the different ways we spell the same words. For example, in a US business meeting, if you table an idea you abandon it, in the UK it means you are proposing it for discussion. With slang words or colloquialisms it is even worse. Returning to the UL theme, many years ago we had a team over from UL to help us with approvals for a daisy wheel printer project. In those days many people smoked at work including me. After a long morning meeting we finally decided it was time for a break. I said "I am dying for a fag" which got me some strange looks from the Americans. In the UK, fag is slang for cigarette, in the US it is not!!

Cheers

Ian

 

[Matt Nolan]

There is also a huge divide between American English and British English and I don't mean the different ways we spell the same words. For example, in a US business meeting, if you table an idea you abandon it, in the UK it means you are proposing it for discussion. With slang words or colloquialisms it is even worse. Returning to the UL theme, many years ago we had a team over from UL to help us with approvals for a daisy wheel printer project. In those days many people smoked at work including me. After a long morning meeting we finally decided it was time for a break. I said "I am dying for a ***" which got me some strange looks from the Americans. In the UK, *** is slang for cigarette, in the US it is not!!

Cheers

Ian

Dying for a flag without an L.

A university lecturer amused my class some years ago when talking about MUF and LUF (Maximum Usable Frequency and Lowest Usable Frequency - radiowave propagation theory) when he said that in the UK, "Muffin the Mule" is a children's TV programme from the early days of the BBC whereas in the USA, "Muffin the Mule" is a criminal offence".

 

[JohnRoberts]

political correctness is important, because it makes a distinction between words used in a derogatory fashion, intended to cause psychological harm, and words which are simply descriptive labels.

As this discussion about differences in humor points out, intent and understanding of that intent matters.

Many words have fallen out of common use because some people attached negative connotation.  Gay used to just mean happy, and some interesting examples of that usage come up in very old movies.

Another interesting example is how black people are allowed to call each other "nig____" as a term of endearment, but white people either use it as an insult, or not at all. Intent for racially charged words like that are implied from the speaker's skin color. That is not fair, but driven by PC. 

I see some in the younger generation carrying this political correctness to absurd extremes wanting safe zones.

A variant on this "everyone gets a trophy for participation" no-fault life, suppresses excellence.  In an absurd extrapolation of this "no lose" sports is a girls basketball team in (MN?) being ejected from a league tournament because they were too good and the other teams didn't want to play them...  http://espn.go.com/espnw/news-commentary/article/14646198/minnesota-basketball-team-kicked-league-being-too-good

sure it doesn't change the challenges that people face, but it does help draw a line; calling someone "dumb" is clearly derogatory, and in a society where equality is considered important (despite the actions of gov which clearly show equality is irrelevant where $£€ is concerned), in a society which aspires to equality it is unacceptable to behave with prejudice towards someone, or use their differences against them.

Equality of rights and opportunity to improve our situation is important, not equality of results.

Prejudice is hard wired into our DNA because it improved our early survival rates. Only education and exposure (like integration) overcomes (ignorant) prejudice. 

JR 

 

[DaveP]

When I used to live in Essex in the UK, there was a piece of woodland called Gay Bowers, meaning a pretty place, I also went to school with a boy called Peter Gay, and you have Marvin Gaye of course where the old English meant handsome or pretty.  I can't imagine what younger people make of those place names now?

Yes, we have had that kind of "no winner games" nonsense over here too.  I don't know how it ever got any traction, I don't remember there ever being some epidemic of psychologically damaged kids appearing because they weren't good at games.

We knew some kids were good at football or cricket and others were good at academic subjects, I was only good at technical stuff, but we just assumed it was just part of the natural diversity in people, it didn't keep us awake at night.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

Another interesting example is how black people are allowed to call each other "nig____" as a term of endearment, but white people either use it as an insult, or not at all. Intent for racially charged words like that are implied from the speaker's skin color. That is not fair, but driven by PC.

Hate to be "whiny" about this but I'm tired of white people complaining about this. I mean, how is this an issue? Black people were frickin' hunted, chained, shipped across an ocean, and then enslaved. Once they were freed they were often without means to compete on the "free market". And they were still discriminated against for a looooong time. Even sitting on the wrong bench or drinking from the wrong fountain could be severely hazardous to your health.

With that context, just how is it an issue that white people would be suspected of being racists for using the n-word? With that history, is the burden of avoiding the word so as to avoid confusion really a big deal?

I see some in the younger generation carrying this political correctness to absurd extremes wanting safe zones.

A variant on this "everyone gets a trophy for participation" no-fault life, suppresses excellence.  In an absurd extrapolation of this "no lose" sports is a girls basketball team in (MN?) being ejected from a league tournament because they were too good and the other teams didn't want to play them... 

I think you'd have to somehow prove that competition as opposed to collaboration somehow yields a better society before your case has merit.

Equality of rights and opportunity to improve our situation is important, not equality of results.

Prejudice is hard wired into our DNA because it improved our early survival rates. Only education and exposure (like integration) overcomes (ignorant) prejudice. 

JR

I agree wholeheartedly.

 

[DaveP]

I think you'd have to somehow prove that competition as opposed to collaboration somehow yields a better society before your case has merit.

I would prefer my drug companies and food suppliers (and many others) to be in competition rather than collaborating.

DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

I think you'd have to somehow prove that competition as opposed to collaboration somehow yields a better society before your case has merit.

I would prefer my drug companies and food suppliers (and many others) to be in competition rather than collaborating.

DaveP

With the assumption that in your capitalist "free" market they will thereby provide better products at lower prices. Try being in need of an AIDS vaccine and not have a lot of money in the wrong market and see how great that works out.

You assume that the only way to teach people how to thrive in the capitalist market is somehow instill in them the desire for competition. If it's possible to do the opposite then my previous statement (in the other thread I think) holds true.

 

[mattiasNYC]

Shkreli

 

[DaveP]

Exactly, he had no competition to curb his greed.
DaveP

 

[mattiasNYC]

Exactly, he had no competition to curb his greed.
DaveP

And in a non-capitalist non-profit collaborative market that would never have happened. There you go.

 

[DaveP]

Better book a ticket to Venezuela and see if it works.
DaveP

 

[Bowie]

Exactly, he had no competition to curb his greed.
DaveP

And in a non-capitalist non-profit collaborative market that would never have happened. There you go.

What state would the pharma, or medical science in general, be in without profit?  For all it's ills, capitalism has brought about some incredible progress.

 

[emrr]

The british method of showing friendship is to truly take the mick out of someone (to be sarcastic), with the full expectation that you'll get a witty retort. If you don't like someone, you wouldn't say a word to them.
The Americans have no idea how to handle that. Most take it as a direct insult, and aren't practiced enough, or don't know how to respond to such an "attack".

Americans struggle to read sarcasm (language, tone, body language).

Yes.  As an American who watched too much Monty Python/etc as a teenager, it became apparent when I picked up similar Brit habits that most here didn't understand or took offense.  Then there's the musician world of insult as complement, which has to be very carefully deployed, much of which also seems to have some from Brit invasion sources. 

 

[mattiasNYC]

Better book a ticket to Venezuela and see if it works.
DaveP

Yeah, because that's the only alternative that exists. Well done Dave.

 

[DaveP]

There is nothing wrong with wanting a perfect world and a perfect system, but unfortunately only perfect people would be able to operate it/live in it.  That is the part all socialists leave out, they assume that redistribution will cure all of humanities failings overnight.

The truth is that greedy power hungry men will always find a way to exploit the system and the work-shy will always find a way to live off the work of others.  The capitalist system is far from perfect but it works for the majority and in particular for those with a strong work ethic.  Where it doesn't work so well is for the minority who fall though the safety net if there is one.  Socialism does a better job of looking after the genuinely needy but provides less incentive to work.  Why go for promotion if it puts you into a higher tax band, why go to work if the benefits pay as much as work?

If you make humanity perfect, the system will probably cure itself, better check out religion again?

DaveP

 

[DaveP]

As an American who watched too much Monty Python

Doug, you cannot watch too much Monty Python

Thanks for bringing it back on topic!

Best
DaveP