So yeah, the PC people have won once again..

[Delta Sigma]

Don't feed the trolls, this is right out of the rules for radicals playbook...

Let them break their arms patting themselves on the back.

JR

What did I say to deserve this? Seriously?

 

[Gustav]

Order is where the people around you act according to well understood social norms, and remain predictable and cooperative. It’s the world of social structure, explored territory, and familiarity. The state of Order is typically portrayed, symbolically—imaginatively—as masculine. It’s the Wise King and the Tyrant, forever bound together, as society is simultaneously structure and oppression.
Chaos, by contrast, is where—or when—something unexpected happens. Chaos emerges, in trivial form, when you tell a joke at a party with people you think you know and a silent and embarrassing chill falls over the gathering. Chaos is what emerges more catastrophically when you suddenly find yourself without employment, or are betrayed by a lover. As the antithesis of symbolically masculine order, it’s presented imaginatively as feminine. It’s the new and unpredictable suddenly emerging in the midst of the commonplace familiar. It’s Creation and Destruction, the source of new things and the destination of the dead (as nature, as opposed to culture, is simultaneously birth and demise).
Order and chaos are the yang and yin of the famous Taoist symbol: two serpents, head to tail.* Order is the white, masculine serpent; Chaos, its black, feminine counterpart..

Jordan B Peterson

 

[gyraf]

I would say that anything anything claimed too fragile to be joked with, is probably not real anyway

 

[Banzai]

I would say that anything anything claimed too fragile to be joked with, is probably not real anyway

Go on then. Tell us a joke about the holocaust.

Put your money where your keyboard is.

 

[JohnRoberts]

What did I say to deserve this? Seriously?

"Seriously?" I did not call you out personally but if the shoe fits....

I will take this opportunity to share the rules of the road. Particularly rule #4

4. You will find that the members of this community are incredibly courteous and respectful of each other, so please reciprocate those gestures. Leave the Flame-war mentality at another forum.  Personal attacks as well as general hateful comments (regarding race, religion, gender, sex, etc...) will not be tolerated.

https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=6650.msg78051#msg78051

This thread has already been complained about to the moderators, tone down your personal ad hominem.

We haven't escorted anyone off the island lately but it can always happen. This forum values our civil discourse and mutual respect.

JR

 

[Banzai]

"Seriously?" I did not call you out personally but if the shoe fits....

I will take this opportunity to share the rules of the road. Particularly rule #4
https://groupdiy.com/index.php?topic=6650.msg78051#msg78051

This thread has already been complained about to the moderators, tone down your personal ad hominem.

We haven't escorted anyone off the island lately but it can always happen. This forum values our civil discourse and mutual respect.

JR

Lopsided hypocritical nonsense.

– When the thread starter slings mud in all directions, everyone else needs to remain courteous or be banned?

If you let the thread happen, and know where it's heading, accept the outcome. Didn't need 15 pages to know this would end with user 37518 cancelling himself, or that others would end up pushing back.

– When you call other forum members "trolls" for sharing their opinions? That doesn't break rule #4, because you're a moderator?

 

[JohnRoberts]

Lopsided hypocritical nonsense.

your opinion is noted.

– When the thread starter slings mud in all directions, everyone else needs to remain courteous or be banned?

We all need to be courteous (rule#4), repeated rule breakers have been banned before.

If you let the thread happen, and know where it's heading, accept the outcome. Didn't need 15 pages to know this would end with user 37518 cancelling himself, or that others would end up pushing back.

I responded to complaints about personal attacks...

– When you call other forum members "trolls" for sharing their opinions? That doesn't break rule #4, because you're a moderator?

Who exactly did I call a troll? That said I perceived troll like behavior and warned others to not get sucked into argument for argument's sake (that is what "don't feed the trolls means").

I have not made any personal attacks despite your claim, while others have called out forum members by name (including me). You have all been warned "again".

If this thread is such a lightning rod for dissent we can lock it, but that won't settle the root causes.

JR

PS: I am pleased that the vast majority of members here are audio hobbyists, or professionals first, and political activists last. People who join GDIY just to argue in the brewery are not honoring the spirit of this forum. Almost anything is tolerated in the brewery as a pressure relief, as long as we are civil and follow the rules. There are probably other social media destinations more compatible with arguing for the sake of arguing. 

 

[ruffrecords]

I think there is a difference between the "PC brigade wins again" and progress. When people find it difficult to join or even recommend a useful web site because of its name, and views on the subject are petitioned and the web site with good grace decides to change its name I think that is progress (or at least enlightened self interest),

However, when a well known British actor is invited onto a widely viewed political programme and dares to defend the British press who have been accused of racist coverage of Meghan Markle, one audience member stands up and calls him a white racist. He replies that they are racist for calling him a "white" racist. Within days he is vilified on social media, his agent quits and he is unemployable. That is when the PC brigade wins.

Cheers

Ian

 

[rob_gould]

I think she called him 'white privileged male'. He did indeed say she was racist.

He's made the most of his 5 minutes in the public eye since then though eh. Next stop London mayor (he hopes).

 

[ComodoComplex]

Jordan Peterson is a reactionary pseudo-intellectual, and Gustav's quote demonstrates, IMHO, no more applicable/useful knowledge than a horoscope or astrology chart.

Decent breakdown in the following article. Prerequisite for reading is understanding a semblance of history, particularly around patriarchy (male dominance in the social order)

https://www.macleans.ca/opinion/the-context-of-jordan-petersons-thoughts-on-enforced-monogamy/

 

[john12ax7]

What did I say to deserve this? Seriously?

I don't think that was directed at you.  Imo your comments brought a much needed balanced perspective on things.

 

[john12ax7]

Jordan Peterson is a reactionary pseudo-intellectual

Why pseudo?  I certainly disagree with him on things.  But I appreciate that he attempts to persuade with reasoned arguments.  If you disagree present your own reasoned arguments in rebuttal.  That is what intellectual discussion is about.

 

[ruffrecords]

I think she called him 'white privileged male'. He did indeed say she was racist.

He's made the most of his 5 minutes in the public eye since then though eh. Next stop London mayor (he hopes).

More like made the most of a situation blown out of all proportion. How can social media be allowed to destroy a person for saying that?

Cheers

Ian

 

[ComodoComplex]

Why pseudo?  I certainly disagree with him on things.  But I appreciate that he attempts to persuade with reasoned arguments.  If you disagree present your own reasoned arguments in rebuttal.  That is what intellectual discussion is about.

Pseudo because he's provably ignorant on a lot of things he talks about. He uses Jungian psychology to make normative claims about society, the basis of which is also non-scientific (like Freud). These psychological theories can be useful for us to guide our lives personally, but making normative societal claims is where things get off the rails.

He has used the nonsense term Postmodern Neomarxism to describe his opponents (Marxist and postmodernist sociologists are opposites in many ways, see: https://medium.com/@charlietaylor105/on-petersons-postmodern-neo-marxism-b33f6f425066), and his use of terms like "Cultural Marxism" are a liiiittle too close to anti-semitic neo-nazi conspiracy theories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory)

There are many criticisms of Peterson's pseudo-intellectualism to be found on the web: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1LhcEh8Ms&t=18s&ab_channel=Jonas%C4%8Ceika-CCKPhilosophy

He's had a glow-up with the recent resurgence of reactionary conservatism + fascism globally since his ideas mesh well with those ideologies. He's argued that we should socially enforce monogamy to prevent disgruntled men from committing mass-shootings, for instance. I can go on...

 

[abbey road d enfer]

This thread has gone for too long now, it's going nowhere, just poisoning the environment and disturbing electrons.

 

[JohnRoberts]

Pseudo because he's provably ignorant on a lot of things he talks about. He uses Jungian psychology to make normative claims about society, the basis of which is also non-scientific (like Freud). These psychological theories can be useful for us to guide our lives personally, but making normative societal claims is where things get off the rails.

He has used the nonsense term Postmodern Neomarxism to describe his opponents (Marxist and postmodernist sociologists are opposites in many ways, see: https://medium.com/@charlietaylor105/on-petersons-postmodern-neo-marxism-b33f6f425066), and his use of terms like "Cultural Marxism" are a liiiittle too close to anti-semitic neo-nazi conspiracy theories (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism_conspiracy_theory)

There are many criticisms of Peterson's pseudo-intellectualism to be found on the web: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cU1LhcEh8Ms&t=18s&ab_channel=Jonas%C4%8Ceika-CCKPhilosophy

He's had a glow-up with the recent resurgence of reactionary conservatism + fascism globally since his ideas mesh well with those ideologies. He's argued that we should socially enforce monogamy to prevent disgruntled men from committing mass-shootings, for instance. I can go on...

Jordan Peterson is pretty well respected. I read his 12 rules book and feel like I learned from it.

I don't even recognize some of the names you are calling him...

I don't know that locking this thread will stop the venom but agree with Abbey, lets lock it down for good measure...

I'll give y'all some time to get in your last licks, but you can always corrupt other sensible threads later. 

JR

 

[JohnRoberts]

Go on then. Tell us a joke about the holocaust.

Put your money where your keyboard is.

there is probably humor about the holocaust, amusing to those people who still deny it... Such humor is not welcome in polite company.

Actually not against the rules, but not welcome IMO.

JR

 

[ComodoComplex]

Jordan Peterson is pretty well respected. I read his 12 rules book and feel like I learned from it.

I'll give y'all some time to get in your last licks, but you can always corrupt other sensible threads later. 

JR

12 rules is fine in my opinion - again if it helps you feel better and do better things with your life, what harm is there in that? I agree you should clean your room. It's his many prescriptive societal claims and political takes, slathered with a pseudo-intellectual veneer to lend them credence, that I take issue with.

If I was trading licks with anyone, it was user 37518, who demonstrated some Islamophobia, calling Islam a violent religion and expressing fears that Islam is poised to replace Christianity as the most populous religion by 2050.

This thread has gone for too long now, it's going nowhere, just poisoning the environment and disturbing electrons.

I think it had gone on for too long on about page 8 when user 37518 decided to talk about fertility rates w.r.t. Islam and "cultural preservation", which for my tastes rides a bit too close to Social Darwinism and is pretty dog-whistley.

user 37518 says,

"Also, not once in my post did I use the words "white" or "race" I used the words "culture" and "society""

which is indeed the point of dog whistles. In the context of the last decade -- the rise of the alt-right in the US, far right reactionary movements around the world, and mass shootings in mosques and synagogues -- you'll please excuse me if I'm sensitive to these themes. If you think I'm being overdramatic then I don't think you're paying attention. One need only read some Wikipedia to gain the knowledge

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Replacement

 

[JohnRoberts]

Ok you are still casting aspersion on another forum member...

JR

-LOCKED>>>