soft iron

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everett

Member
Joined
Oct 20, 2004
Messages
5
ummm silly question!
What the heck is soft iron (as used in coils, solenoids and transformers) and where can you buy soft iron rods for making coils.
Everything today seems to be based on hi tech ferrite type materials but I just want to know where to buy soft iron and more importantly what actually is it. Yes I know its IRON but what does the 'soft' mean. Low carbon content like the original wrought iron? Mild steel? I'm stumped!
Anyone got a technical answer for me?
I'm all ears. TIA :?:
 
> What the heck is soft iron (as used in coils, solenoids and transformers)

I think a common nail is "soft iron", i.e. mild steel. Hardware store strap-iron.

If you need VERY high flux density, as in a horn-driver magnetic gap, the alloy may be critical; but for routine magnetic toys like solenoids you saw/bend/grind some nails or other common hardware iron.

Iron for good power and audio transformers IS special; the Sowter paper CJ linked to is a good introduction. You get this stuff from transformer iron specialists: not only is the alloy fussy and not good for anything else, the rolling and tempering have to be right. Rough stamping can reduce the magnetic properties.

Oh, if you must, you can wind a transformer on sheet-iron straps. It must be about as thin as you see in "real" transformers or eddy-current will eat you up. ("Real" tranny-iron adds silicon to increase resistance and reduce eddy current.) You will have to stack it higher than tranny-iron because the saturation is lower. It worked in 19th-century experiments, but even then electricians were finding better mag-iron processes than plain sheet-iron.
 
Thanks guys. I think I've got it now. The links by CJ really helped and they were able to point me to extra links that completed this little educational exercise.
Just for the record tho' it looks like my original assumptiion about the carbon content was close to the mark. I've discovered the term soft iron is applied to iron and iron alloys (alloys of nickle, cobalt, silicon) plus some other specialist alloys, but where non alloys are considered i.e just plain iron, then the term DOES apply to the early wrought iron or any iron that had a VERY low carbon content (which mild steel does not). The low carbon content is to do with the DC resistivity of the core (low material resistivity for higher DC current/magnetic linking).
Also, for the record if you go out and buy a piece of wrought iron it won't work properly because what is called wrought iron (i.e the material not the process of wroughting), isn't really wrought iron but mild steel. It's very difficult to buy REAL wrought iron like 18thC iron. Looks like there is only 1 foundry in the world that now manufactures this.
In any case it looks like the best bet is to get one of the nickle iron alloys rather than pure iron anyway.
 
> what is called wrought iron (i.e the material not the process of wroughting), isn't really wrought iron but mild steel. It's very difficult to buy REAL wrought iron

I haven't seen any in a decade, since they tore down the 1880 iron bridge in town. That was fascinating to study up close, because wrought iron is very unlike modern steel. Oh, there may be a few wrought-iron ornamental fences around the oldest churches in town, but rust never sleeps and most old iron fences decay and get replaced with bent-up steel, aluminum, or (gag) plastic fencing. There's maybe one fence I know with the tell-tale pastry-flake of wrought iron.

Bessemer and other steels completely displaced wrought-iron. I'm surprised anybody still makes it, though I suppose it is a big world and a lot of places where the old craft is not completely forsaken.

I probably have some details wrong, but.....

Throw red dirt in a hot fire. After a while you have a red-hot lump of slag in the bottom. There are bits of iron in the slag. Start hammering. This welds the iron-bits together and squeezes out slag. Sticking with the hammer, you work it like flaky pastry: hammer out thin, fold, hammer out thin, repeat hundreds of times. You wind up with layers of iron with thin sheets of slag between. If your arm gets tired, build a rolling mill and roll the slagball into rods, you get tendrils of iron with slag inclusions. Strong wrought iron is always strong in one or two directions, weak in the other 2 or 1 direction(s). Not unlike wood, which is 1,000PSI one way and 100PSI the other way (you can split a log that you could never break).

What I think this means in transformer terms is: wrought iron has very high resistivity for paths that pass through slag, even though the majority of the mass has fair conductivity both electric and magnetic. So in an AC transformer, if you lay the "grain" of the wrought iron the right way, eddy-current circles are small, eddy-current losses are small. Switch to steel, and no matter what you do with the carbon, a solid block of steel acts like a shorted-turn with resistance not a lot higher than your copper winding. Idle core losses are very high. The fix is to use thin steel with insulation (varnish or even controlled rust) between them, to limit the size of eddy-circles. Now we ask why we burned-out all the slag to steel, hammered thin, and put "slag" back between layers of iron, when wrought iron works this way naturally. Of course the demand for strong-all-ways steel and its mass production drove wrought iron out of production, and the precision sheet-rolling and varnish gives a more predictable product than wrought iron.

Hmmmmm...mmmm.... now I'm wondering if the shift from 25Hz to 60Hz power might have followed the shift from WI to sheet-steel. Of course the main reason was the Electric Light and its flicker, but maybe WI was adequate at 25Hz and new Steel allowed a shift to 60Hz and smaller cores.

> get one of the nickle iron alloys rather than pure iron anyway.

You can certainly make door-bells and solenoids with mild steel. Its hundreds of times better than air. I've always wanted to wind a transformer with soft steel wire core. But almost any serious transformer application will be better with one of the "electrical steels", the trade term for steel that has been alloyed, rolled, and tempered for transformer/motor uses rather than for bridges or shelf-bracket uses. And power-iron has a different balance of features than audio-input iron: power-iron has to work at very high flux with low loss but distortion is unimportant; input iron wants high permeability at low flux, and distortion is critical. Much power-iron (including large audio outputs) is just steel with silicon to increase its resistance, and careful rolling and annealing to bring out the magnetic property. Small-signal tranny irons are witches-brews of odd metals and artful processing.
 
> It's very difficult to buy REAL wrought iron like 18thC iron. Looks like there is only 1 foundry in the world that now manufactures this.

Probably these guys.

See also: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrought_iron
 
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