Spring Reverb from the 60's

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hansen

Member
Joined
Nov 28, 2017
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23
Recently I found this article, published in an electronics magazine the the late 60's. It explained the basic circuit of an spring reverb (see pdf attached). After all the DIY kits, I was up for more of a challenge, so I decided to give the spring reverb build a try from scratch on.

I started by making a pcb, by printing the design of the article to a copper plate. After that I ordered Ferric Cholride to etch my own circuit. Man, it was soo awesome to do this yourself!
Next step is to order the components described in the article, to solder them in the pcb. If anyone is interested in pictures, I can deliver...

I have two questions regarding the circuit that hopefully someone with more knowledge about physics is able to answer ;) -> for reference, check the circuit in figure 1 of the attached pdf.

-What should be used for power input, how much V and to what point should it be connected?
-The input and output plugs of the reverb are mono. Does anybody know what it takes to chance it to stereo in and out?
 

Attachments

  • springreverb.pdf
    304 KB
hansen said:
-What should be used for power input, how much V and to what point should it be connected?

The document suggests a 40-50v PSU if you're using 1.5K for R12, as shown on the schematic.

You'll need to connect the positive lead on your +40-50v power supply to the end of R12 that's marked with a "+" symbol, then connect the negative lead of your power supply to the part of the circuit marked with the ground symbol.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Earth_Ground.svg

hansen said:
--The input and output plugs of the reverb are mono. Does anybody know what it takes to chance it to stereo in and out?

It's a mono unit, you'd need to build a second channel if you want stereo reverb.
 
Lee_M said:
The document suggests a 40-50v PSU if you're using 1.5K for R12, as shown on the schematic.

You'll need to connect the positive lead on your +40-50v power supply to the end of R12 that's marked with a "+" symbol, then connect the negative lead of your power supply to the part of the circuit marked with the ground symbol.

https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Earth_Ground.svg

Excellent, Ill start right away.  Thanks alot for your relply, I will update the result with pictures here when it'll be done ;)
 
What type of spring tank are you using?

The document suggests a "Gibbs IV-C, hammond organ" spring tank. I'm going to assume that the "IV" part means "Type 4", which is a well known type of spring tank that's  commonly found in hammond organs and guitar amps.
Here's a page I just found which has some info about the "Gibbs type 4C".;
http://www.hagstrom.org.uk/GA85%20Reverbunit.htm

They're manufactured by accutronics nowadays, it looks like you want the "4FB2A1C" model.
http://www.accutronicsreverb.com/main/?skin=sub01_02.html

Here's a US- based supplier.
http://amprepairparts.com/reverb.htm

EU-based supplier.
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_info.php?products_id=3874&url_node_name=Reverb_Cans_Effects_Accutronics_Reverb&language=en
 
Lee_M said:
EU-based supplier.
http://www.tubeampdoctor.com/product_info.php?products_id=3874&url_node_name=Reverb_Cans_Effects_Accutronics_Reverb&language=en

I found a seller in the Netherlands, that sells the exact reverb tank. Thanks for the links.
I'm having trouble finding the right components with the exact numbers given in the article...spending hours in webshops atm :-\
Would it be okay to have slightly other numbers, for instance a 33uF, 6.3V capacitor instead of the given 30uF, 5V?
 
hansen said:
Would it be okay to have slightly other numbers, for instance a 33uF, 6.3V capacitor instead of the given 30uF, 5V?
Yeah,  that cap is for emitter bypass so you can go higher than 30uf, 33uf will be fine. You could probably use 47uf or 50uf, if that's easier.

I wouldn't stress over finding a 6.3v cap either, any voltage above 6v will do. I'd probably go for 16v or 25v, just to ensure a decent safety margin. 33uf 25v caps are generally tiny, so size shouldn't be an issue.
 
hansen said:
I'm having trouble finding the right components with the exact numbers given in the article...
Not a big surprise, since this article is 50 years old; you may find better and cheaper transistors. Fortunately, the tank is still made under the Accutronics brand name.
 
Thanks all for supporting this project. We’ve spend multiple days creating the verb now, and it’s finally getting somewhere.  Hopefully  will work out and ill  soon be able to post a guilde.
We’re at the last stage to solder all the components into the pcb.

Lee_M said:
The document suggests a 40-50v PSU if you're using 1.5K for R12, as shown on the schematic.

I am looking to buy the 50v psu now,  but the shopassistant asks me that I need to know how much Watt it needs. Is there any way to figure this out? 
 
hansen said:
Thanks all for supporting this project. We’ve spend multiple days creating the verb now, and it’s finally getting somewhere.  Hopefully  will work out and ill  soon be able to post a guilde.
We’re at the last stage to solder all the components into the pcb.

I am looking to buy the 50v psu now,  but the shopassistant asks me that I need to know how much Watt it needs. Is there any way to figure this out?
According to graph, current draw is about 30-35mA, so that would compute to about 1.5W. In fact, this circuit could be powered with a clean regulated 24V supply, omitting R12.
Actually, this is one of the worst designs I ever saw, clearly done by someone who does not have a good understanding of electronics.
 
> Actually, this is one of the worst designs I ever saw, clearly done by someone who does not have a good understanding of electronics.

I don't disagree. However Dan Meyer *later* became a leader in Power Amps. You can trace his growth from his PE articles. Most were named "Tiger", and have mixed reputations among builders. But he pioneered several important topologies and sold kits for astonishingly powerful (for the time) amplifiers. He then switched more to selling computer kits; everybody advertised computer kits but he had the kit business already perfected.
 
here is a solid state kit to add to the stew pot>

https://www.surfyindustries.com/surfybear-pcb-diy-kit-faceplate

https://www.surfyindustries.com/download/SurfyIndustries-SurfyBear_Kit-UserGuide.pdf
 
abbey road d enfer said:
According to graph, current draw is about 30-35mA, so that would compute to about 1.5W. In fact, this circuit could be powered with a clean regulated 24V supply, omitting R12.
Actually, this is one of the worst designs I ever saw, clearly done by someone who does not have a good understanding of electronics.
1) it´s easy to make fun of a 50 y.o. circuit, specially if it´s one of the first SS reverb designs ... anywhere.
Should they have used an NE5532 to drive the tank? ;)

2) Daniel Meyer didn´t actually design much of it, just slightly adapt it into a Magazine article form, design a PCB, build one, take pictures, write text, etc. ... the circuit itself comes straight from a Hammond/Gibbs/Accutronics applications sheet.
If anything, blame them ;)
In fact, it´s textbook classic design, step by step:
a) input stage Q1 is a properly biased FET gain stage. Care has been given to stability, drift, and to minimize Fet to Fet variation, that´s why it shows some *positive*  bias which allows for a larger than usual Source resistor.
Fets were relatively rare and expensive, and were clearly selected to make Reverb compatible with Tube amps.
b) it drives an Emitter Follower Q2 so it can drive a relatively low impedance inductive load: tha tank coil.
c) reverb signal is recovered by a classic transistor gain stage, Q3, stable and properly biased.
d) Q4 is not strictly needed, but helps isolate Q3 from external loads, and it doesn´t hurt at all to have  lower source impedance.
In all, quite a good example of late 60´s SS design.

3) funny thing, it actually works quite well, you will be surprised.
I built and sold a ton of them way back then ... yes .... 1969 on, go figure.

4) passing a few mA DC through the drive coil was actually acceptable, I think up to 6.5mA or so, it´s in the original datasheet.
The point being that to save an expensive driver transformer, some Tube amp makers straight drove coils from a Tube plate or cathode, in series, and obviously passing DC, so they better engineer it into the design or else .....

This circuit is the SS version of that.

5) since then current amp was typically a Tube amp, but first SS ones were appearing, and lots of people wanted to add Reverb (expensive and coveted) to their current amplifier, this excellent yet simple design covered all bases.

a) supply: actual circuit needs a few mA and around 25V DC, and it could be used on its own with such a supply, but since it was very often an add-on , they allowed to "steal"  power from any available (amplifier)  supply.
Tube-or-transistor  :eek:
The Popular Electronics article was part of a series , spanning many issues, showing how to build a 60W SS guitar amplifier, complete with Tremolo, Reverb and Fuzz ... top of the line way back then.
It used a 60V single supply, so naturally the Reverb circuit showed how to drop that so some 25V .
What´s interesting is that it also showed how to feed it from a *Tube*  type amp supply, and they show the Math on how to calculate needed resistor if you have, say, 300V DC available.

b) impedance/matching
To make it truly Universal, no matter what the amplifier but which would obviously have been designed without "adding a Reverb"  in mind, this project was meant to be added between preamp Out and Power amp in .... any and all amps have *that* ;)
So they relied on a simple resistive mixer: suggesting, say, 10k to 22k for SS amplifiers and, say, 150k orn so for Tube ones ... a prctical choice.

So in a nutshell: for its day and intended objective, it was a state of the art, very practical project.

Yes, a Fender Tube type reverb was better, and the Golden Standard, but was impossibly expensive for an average Hobbyist, requiring 2 extra tubes, punching 2 extra holes in chassis, having enough power (specially filaments) to feed them,  a reverb driver tank (doubt they were available over the counter way back then in any case), etc.
And impossible on an SS amp.

Again: this was the Tank manufacturer "datasheet example" , so .....
 
JMFahey said:
1) it´s easy to make fun of a 50 y.o. circuit,
I didn't intend to "make fun", rather warn the OP that it was an obsolete design and entering at his own risk.

Daniel Meyer didn´t actually design much of it, just slightly adapt it into a Magazine article form, design a PCB, build one, take pictures, write text, etc. ... the circuit itself comes straight from a Hammond/Gibbs/Accutronics applications sheet.
If anything, blame them ;)
Yes, I would blame them, but I still would blame Mr. Meyer for publishing it in a way that has little educational value.

In fact, it´s textbook classic design, step by step:
a) input stage Q1 is a properly biased FET gain stage. Care has been given to stability, drift, and to minimize Fet to Fet variation, that´s why it shows some *positive*  bias which allows for a larger than usual Source resistor.
Fets were relatively rare and expensive, and were clearly selected to make Reverb compatible with Tube amps.
b) it drives an Emitter Follower Q2 so it can drive a relatively low impedance inductive load: tha tank coil.
c) reverb signal is recovered by a classic transistor gain stage, Q3, stable and properly biased.
d) Q4 is not strictly needed, but helps isolate Q3 from external loads, and it doesn´t hurt at all to have  lower source impedance.
In all, quite a good example of late 60´s SS design.
I agree. It would have been nice if that was explained in the article.
I think instead of the graph giving the value of R12 against the supply voltage, it would have been more educational to specify the current draw and apply Ohm's law.
I have not seen in the article any warning about ordering the proper type of tank; a IV-C could be of many sorts. In particular the input coil must be of the high-impedance type.


So in a nutshell: for its day and intended objective, it was a state of the art, very practical project.
I wouldn't qualify that as state-of-the-art. The Fairchild 658 of same vintage was SOtA.
 
> It would have been nice if that was explained in the article.

Popular Electronics was more "entertainment" than educational; however they usually had a "How It Works" blurb. Sadly this was printed in a color-box and scans badly. The one for this project covers the generals, though does not get into details of bias or acceptable DC in a transducer.

The selection of tanks was smaller in those days. However you did have to know few-Ohms from few-K. Of course Meyer made it easy: put a 6-cent stamp (up from 5 cents the month before!) on an envelope with a check and he'd send you the right stuff. Before the internet, it made a lot more sense to pay a kitter's small markup than to run around finding a store who could order just one tank. (No way could I have assembled the bits for the Tiger amps from catalogs and the local TV repair shop.)
 

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Got everything hooked up. Bought some capacitors with a slightly higher uF and V, but I think that is allright as Lee_M said.
Well now, before I finish the last connection, maybe someone can help me reading the schematic:

A is the input jack.
R13 is a potentiometer.

I haven't connected the middle pin of R13.
I haven't connected the left pin (the one not goint to C1) of A.

Is there someone that can tell me how to hook these cables up?


 

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abbey road d enfer said:
No; A is a label, not a component. The concentric circles labelled INPUT are the symbol for the connector.
Well, you should since it's the output of the recovery amp; that's what gives reverb.
Really? I thought A=Input, B=To Springreverb, C=From Springreverb, D=To Amp
That is what I thought they meant with: 'Connect short pieces wire between points A, B, C and E of the PC board and their phono jacks. So in my build -> A is connected to an input-jack, B is going to the input of the reverb, C is going from the output of the reverb and E is a input jack between C5 and R13.
Am I messing things up?  :-[
 
hansen said:
Really? I thought A=Input, B=To Springreverb, C=From Springreverb, D=To Amp
Exactly. They are not components, they are points of the circuit that need to be connected to actual connectors.

That is what I thought they meant with: 'Connect short pieces wire between points A, B, C and E of the PC board and their phono jacks. So in my build -> A is connected to an input-jack, B is going to the input of the reverb, C is going from the output of the reverb and E is a input jack between C5 and R13.
That is correct, but in your previous post, you wrote "I haven't connected the left pin (the one not goint to C1) of A." There is no left or right pin of A. Labels are the equivalent of "you are here" on a map.
 
abbey road d enfer said:
Exactly. They are not components, they are points of the circuit that need to be connected to actual connectors.
I see, sorry for the confusion, I am a beginner  ::)
So, then if I understand it right, the input jack connected  to point A is going to C1. It is also connected to the top line in the circuit (between the concentric circles). I can't seem to understand how this is connected.

I would say ->(C1)-(Input Jack)-(R14)-(R15)-(mid pin of R13). Is this a proper connection or is this totally wrong?
 

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