SSL Cloning Themselves?

GroupDIY Audio Forum

Help Support GroupDIY Audio Forum:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.

john12ax7

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 15, 2010
Messages
2,477
Location
California, US
Seems a lot of SSL gear has shifted production to China. For example the former UK built 611 500 Series EQ is now rebadged as E-EQ. At first I thought it was just a price drop, as they look very similar. Seems we have reached the point where they are making cheaper clones of their own products.
 
Seems a lot of SSL gear has shifted production to China. For example the former UK built 611 500 Series EQ is now rebadged as E-EQ. At first I thought it was just a price drop, as they look very similar. Seems we have reached the point where they are making cheaper clones of their own products.
Offshore manufacturing to reduce cost is a several decades old trend. I recall US SKUs being manufactured in Japan back in the 80s to reduce manufacturing cost. In the 90s I travelled to China for Peavey to work with Chinese contract manufacturers.

These days I'd be worried about the tail eating the dog... Over the years we have seen contract manufacturers buy their customers. One high profile example was Young Chang buying Kurzweil in 1990 (Young Chang was later bought by HDC 2006?). At the moment China is struggling a little economically. Evergrande, China's 2nd largest property development company just declared chapter 15 bankruptcy in NYC.

JR

PS; A perhaps amusing historical note, back in our nation's early history the US was a low cost manufacturer of "borrowed" European technology. Times change.
 
At the moment China is struggling a little economically.
Very cheritably phrased, I think. :geek:

China has a massive real estate bubble. Real estate made up ca. 25% of their economy. Reason being that people are not allowed to put their money into other investment classes. For decades ghost cities were built and people trusted in the paper value of concrete. Now the chickens come home to roost.

Unemployment is really high, almost 50% (according to unofficial counts) among people below 25. They have a massive surplus of newly graduated and graduating youth unable to find adequate employment. As I wrote in other threads, elite overproduction is a sure-fire way to create societal discord.

There are massive demographic (birth rate now stands at 1.09) and environmental (exploitation of the environment during the boom years, climate change) time bombs. Many people are of very poor health (bad working/living conditions, stress, widespread tobacco abuse) and the health care system is not up to the challenges.

And it is still a developing country with modern cities surrounded by underdeveloped rural areas.

Plus, the totalitarian system and the culture don't allow for honest assesments and rectification of problems, unhampered scientific research and more recently increasingly, the pursuit of business enterprises.

It's one more country we must hope does not turn to outward aggression to deflect from internal strife.

And to a country like mine that relies heavily on a trade surplus fueled in large part by Chinese consumers, a weak Chinese economy is bad news for our own economy.

An interesting finding of historical science is that cultural habits of large and long-lived cultures are very stable. For millenia, after every revolution China has returned to what is, at its core and regardless of actual type of government, a hierarchical bureaucracy. So chances are high that it will stay that way long-term.
 
Very cheritably phrased, I think. :geek:

China has a massive real estate bubble. Real estate made up ca. 25% of their economy. Reason being that people are not allowed to put their money into other investment classes. For decades ghost cities were built and people trusted in the paper value of concrete. Now the chickens come home to roost.

Unemployment is really high, almost 50% (according to unofficial counts) among people below 25. They have a massive surplus of newly graduated and graduating youth unable to find adequate employment. As I wrote in other threads, elite overproduction is a sure-fire way to create societal discord.
I have seen reports that educated young people are unwilling to accept jobs they consider below them (like unskilled labor).
There are massive demographic (birth rate now stands at 1.09) and environmental (exploitation of the environment during the boom years, climate change) time bombs. Many people are of very poor health (bad working/living conditions, stress, widespread tobacco abuse) and the health care system is not up to the challenges.

And it is still a developing country with modern cities surrounded by underdeveloped rural areas.

Plus, the totalitarian system and the culture don't allow for honest assesments and rectification of problems, unhampered scientific research and more recently increasingly, the pursuit of business enterprises.
another example of central planning's weaknesses.
It's one more country we must hope does not turn to outward aggression to deflect from internal strife.
They are already turning outward. China has the largest navy in the world while western navies are arguably more powerful (nuclear subs, etc.).

China has been building bases on disputed islands in the south china sea, to impose their military influence in the Pacific. They have methodically been working up to taking over and absorbing Taiwan, a long stated goal.

Recently their joint naval exercise with Russia off Alaska's Aleutian islands, makes a definite military statement (the US could use a Navy base in AK).
And to a country like mine that relies heavily on a trade surplus fueled in large part by Chinese consumers, a weak Chinese economy is bad news for our own economy.

An interesting finding of historical science is that cultural habits of large and long-lived cultures are very stable. For millenia, after every revolution China has returned to what is, at its core and regardless of actual type of government, a hierarchical bureaucracy. So chances are high that it will stay that way long-term.
Historical science?

China's core was largely agrarian (farming). I don't see them reverting back to farming after the next "revolution". I expect China to create major disturbances in the outside world before ever quietly imploding.

JR
 
I have seen reports that educated young people are unwilling to accept jobs they consider below them (like unskilled labor).
The idea of the communist party leaders is to send them to the countryside to help out. Who would study extremely hard basically their whole life and graduate sucessfully in order to work a well-payed job in the city, and then do menial labor in the middle of nowhere to be paid change? This is a great recipe to create a counter-elite.

another example of central planning's weaknesses.
Central planning is necessary. The US would not have a power grid, highway net, the transistor, microchips, internet, moon landing, a safety net, civilian and military security and many other things without it. But it needs to be limited to provide a framework, an infrastructure, things that can be done best collectively. A country without a government that does some central planning is a failed state.

Historical science?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliodynamics
China's core was largely agrarian (farming). I don't see them reverting back to farming after the next "revolution". I expect China to create major disturbances in the outside world before ever quietly imploding.

That's just the economy. The state has been organized as a meritocratic bureaucracy for millenia.
 
The idea of the communist party leaders is to send them to the countryside to help out. Who would study extremely hard basically their whole life and graduate sucessfully in order to work a well-payed job in the city, and then do menial labor in the middle of nowhere to be paid change? This is a great recipe to create a counter-elite.
like I said a failure of central planning
Central planning is necessary. The US would not have a power grid, highway net, the transistor, microchips, internet, moon landing, a safety net, civilian and military security and many other things without it. But it needs to be limited to provide a framework, an infrastructure, things that can be done best collectively. A country without a government that does some central planning is a failed state.
Like a secure border?
ew,,, against my preference I actually clicked that link... How can they treat history like science, unless they redefine science?
That's just the economy. The state has been organized as a meritocratic bureaucracy for millenia.
I read several books about chinese culture before going there last century, but I am sure I know almost nothing. I read sun tzu's art of war about three times so far.

I do not find it productive to argue about some distant future, it hasn't happened yet. History does not repeat perfectly, but often it rhymes.

JR
 
like I said a failure of central planning

Like a secure border?

I read several books about chinese culture before going there last century, but I am sure I know almost nothing. I read sun tzu's art of war about three times so far.

Ah! Sun Tzu Art of War, excellent read !

In this perticular case, China already has a victory, without even fighting.
Indeed, every time I see a new Made in China gizmo advertised by fellow GDIY members,
my will to fight it vanishes = press BUY button.
Weakness of DIY will. :cautious:

In any case, SSL is using China to build/clone some gear/arrows for them,
when in reality those same arrows will later be used against them...
Building a Golden Bridge for themselves?
Unwise ;)

Capitalism is a double edge sword, dear friends.

M
 
.....They are already turning outward. China has the largest navy in the world while western navies are arguably more powerful (nuclear subs, etc.).

China has been building bases on disputed islands in the south china sea, to impose their military influence in the Pacific. They have methodically been working up to taking over and absorbing Taiwan, a long stated goal.

"Colonialism" , Imperialism , possession mania ( among the most dangerous mental illnesses ) , avidity , greediness , egoism ,
wars , violences , massacres , murderers , and everything related.... ,

after thousands of years of failed empires and crimes against humanity
more insults to healthy side of intelligence ?

China's core was largely agrarian (farming). I don't see them reverting back to farming after the next "revolution". I expect China to create major disturbances in the outside world before ever quietly imploding.
JR
.... probably the most peaceful way to bring them to understand ?
..... or send delegations of workers' unions ?

Historically, the China has always had internal disagreements between various internal zones (essentially always for the above "reasons" , behind which the economic interests of those who ruled the respective areas ? )
exploded into wars with many more millions of deaths than WW2.
 
Populating smt on boards can be done anywhere just about. Can easily save some money doing it overseas. In turn can lower prices for the consumer.
You will find the same parts in pre and post Asia so I don’t see it as an issue. I have seen many a company make a circuit and then rebrand it for any number of reasons. The unusual part is how at one moment circuit A does not do well but once rebranded with new name takes off like a rocket in sales.
A lot of decisions go into this as does upfront money to have stock on hand and it’s hard to say what will be a hit and what will be a miss.
 
Like a secure border?
If there is a thread at the border, obviously.

ew,,, against my preference I actually clicked that link... How can they treat history like science, unless they redefine science?
They can. And it works. And a lot of things that didn't before finally make sense.

Economy is treated as a science, and it's often much further from that goal than cliodynamics.
 
Economy is treated as a science, and it's often much further from that goal than cliodynamics.
I jokingly call economics a soft science because it tries to predict squishy human behavior.

With macroeconomics averaged across large populations you can generally get close enough to make predictions. Microeconomics has to deal with individual human behavior so good luck with that.

JR
 
Everything's being done to reduce cost (layoffs, outsourcing, etc) to increase profits while wages remain stagnant. You can only do that for so long. Capitalism is running out of ideas. Uber telling us they'll be profitable when they get self-driving going (We'll make money when we have no employees!) is the funniest (saddest?) example I can think of. Influencers hucking the same copy of the same workout supplement (but it's got THEIR brand on it). Now they just run up the price on things that we *must* have to survive- food, shelter, healthcare, etc because...what are you going to do??? Live out of your car??? China has that business because wealthy people choose to give it to them. Nobody in a co-op is voting for their jobs to go away. I don't have much hope that the next generation can keep this going.
 
Everything's being done to reduce cost (layoffs, outsourcing, etc) to increase profits while wages remain stagnant. You can only do that for so long. Capitalism is running out of ideas. Uber telling us they'll be profitable when they get self-driving going (We'll make money when we have no employees!) is the funniest (saddest?) example I can think of. Influencers hucking the same copy of the same workout supplement (but it's got THEIR brand on it). Now they just run up the price on things that we *must* have to survive- food, shelter, healthcare, etc because...what are you going to do??? Live out of your car??? China has that business because wealthy people choose to give it to them. Nobody in a co-op is voting for their jobs to go away. I don't have much hope that the next generation can keep this going.

.... while the bank accounts of off shore safe companies in tax havens are increasingly full ...

.... seems like something do not work properly ?
 
Well... SSL are generally imploding into themselves that's for sure. I recently had one of their mastering compressors in for repair. I found the problem to be an open circuit track on a potentiometer -easy really. Trouble was, this pot was a special one with two completely different value tracks on it. I thought, UK company, in the pro sound business for years - sure, I can get the part from them.

I live in Malta so I knew it may be difficult to get the part. First of all I got the usual crap that companies dish out these days : "Go to your local service centre".
Malta is a very small island so the possibility of a service centre here - nil. I explained all this and they wouldn't budge. Nearest service centre - Germany - about 1000 miles away. They didn't even bother to get back to me so I tried SSL in UK again. Explained the problem. Nada... nothing. I decided to keep up the pressure. Cited bad service, bad attitude to customers. In all I sent them 8 emails all bitterly pointing out their bad customer service - no loyalty to customer etc. I sent one email to be sent for the attention of the CEO ONLY.

Suddenly, I get an email stating: The part number, the price of the part and the shipping charge and a request to give them my Malta address!

Of course I did this immediately and asked them for the total price and the method of payment. First of all - bank transfer ONLY - which I knew would take days to go through - it did... that wasn't convenient at all.

Then the total price. This is where I nearly fell through the floor. £50. What?? Yeah £50 for a part that probably in reality costs about £1. Complete rip off - but maybe they were punishing me for forcing them to supply. Who knows.

I'm an old hand at this. I remember when SSL were a good, old fashioned, friendly company with great service and support. God only knows what a mess I'd be in if it were a console I was repairing. Shame on you SSL. With this sort of behaviour you deserve to go out of business.

Moral of the story? Don't buy SSL.

Wait until Behringer buys it then forget getting hold of any parts at all.
 
The funny thing with service departments is they are often overloaded with work and often understaffed so form letters are often the first line of defense no different then dell or apple asking if you turned it off and on again. Did that fix your issue?
Because there is so much chatter have to be persistent. Contacting a big company and you are in the cue. It may take some time to respond. This does not include if they are short a person due to other obligations.
Service centers are in place for a reason.
 
Getting repair parts from a supply chain extending half way around the globe and scheduled to build large batches at a time infrequently, can be problematic. Back in the good old days when the manufacturing production line was a couple miles away, getting repair parts was easy peasy... now not so much.

JR

PS; Years ago for US manufacturers, changes in tax law (Thor power tool decision), meant that manufacturers had to carry JIC repair parts on the balance sheet at full value, even though projections only expected a fraction of them to ever be used.
 

Latest posts

Back
Top