SSL Cloning Themselves?

[pucho812]

Poor response / service to be sure. £50 is excessive but I take it the £1 estimate is an exaggeration for dramatic effect ?

Is it really? Maybe. If it’s a custom part it takes a lot to tool it. Then it takes a whole team and supply chain to get it and then send it out to the end user.
If the part is so less expensive elsewhere then buy it elsewhere.
I recall a time where a speaker fell off the meter bridge of a neve 88R. Well wouldn’t you know it, some pot shafts were bent and mangled. Ams neve couldn’t sell us replacements because they were custom and they did not have the minimum quantity in the cue to merit placing an order. Imagine being told we can’t sell you the part right now because we don’t have enough pending orders to fill and order the minimum on a custom part. Took over 1.5 years to finally get told we could order the part and get it.

 

[kags]

Speaking of SSL parts - anyone have a suggestion for a source or suitable replacement for NKK KB-16 SK and KB-15 SK illuminated pushbutton switches, as used on SSL J9000 for just about everything? I have some going bad and only a handful of replacements on hand. I've tried reaching out the NKK distributors, but no response so far.

 

[pucho812]

Speaking of SSL parts - anyone have a suggestion for a source or suitable replacement for NKK KB-16 SK and KB-15 SK illuminated pushbutton switches, as used on SSL J9000 for just about everything? I have some going bad and only a handful of replacements on hand. I've tried reaching out the NKK distributors, but no response so far.

Try Eao, I don’t recall asSL using nkk

 

[Brian Roth]

Speaking of SSL parts - anyone have a suggestion for a source or suitable replacement for NKK KB-16 SK and KB-15 SK illuminated pushbutton switches, as used on SSL J9000 for just about everything? I have some going bad and only a handful of replacements on hand. I've tried reaching out the NKK distributors, but no response so far.

Picture?

Bri

 

[john12ax7]

SSL used to have a website where you could easily order small quantities of some replacement parts, not sure if that is still around.

 

[Newmarket]

Is it really? Maybe. If it’s a custom part it takes a lot to tool it. Then it takes a whole team and supply chain to get it and then send it out to the end user.
If the part is so less expensive elsewhere then buy it elsewhere.
I recall a time where a speaker fell off the meter bridge of a neve 88R. Well wouldn’t you know it, some pot shafts were bent and mangled. Ams neve couldn’t sell us replacements because they were custom and they did not have the minimum quantity in the cue to merit placing an order. Imagine being told we can’t sell you the part right now because we don’t have enough pending orders to fill and order the minimum on a custom part. Took over 1.5 years to finally get told we could order the part and get it.

Well my real point was to confirm that the "£1" mention was hyperbolic. But yes - I'd say £50 was excessive, depending on a few things. So to round that out a bit : How old is the product (@gaztech didn't say) - for products with a long expected lifetime, and I think a professional compressor such as an SSL falls into this category, it's usual for spare parts to be available for ten years from end of manufacture. Either "off the shelf" or to short order times. This always comes down to "a reasonable time" which is subjective but realistically may be weeks to a few months. Definitely not over a year. Whether this availability is a legal requirement depends on where you are in the world.
As for Tooling / NRE charges - if the manufacturer has been responsible then the original tooling, or at least the relevant information, will have been retained.
There may , of course, be some set up costs if the pot type has not been manufactured for some time (presumably by a separate company in the case of SSL).

In this particular case it would seem that it might be possible to simply replace the faulty element itself into the existing pot' body ?
Manufacturing an element to a specific non-standard value is not trivial. But it's not that difficult either.

And tbf I don't know if the £50 includes shipping. And if so by what service. Some places can be bizarrely expensive to ship to compared to other nearby territories.

 

[living sounds]

I'm trying to get my Lavry converter repaired (they are the only ones who can do it). After an initial answer they are no longer replying to emails...

 

[JohnRoberts]

In this particular case it would seem that it might be possible to simply replace the faulty element itself into the existing pot' body ?

Maybe if you purchase a pot from the exact same pot manufacturer series in the value you want, you could swap out the substrates (very carefully).

Manufacturing an element to a specific non-standard value is not trivial. But it's not that difficult either.

Hugely impractical for a one-off repair. Pot makers generally don't tool up custom pot tapers for less than several thousand at a time.

And tbf I don't know if the £50 includes shipping. And if so by what service. Some places can be bizarrely expensive to ship to compared to other nearby territories.

This reminds me of a similar painful repair. Back in the 70s one of the centering bearing dongles that my the 8" floppy disks rode on broke apart. I found the component manufacturer and ordered a replacement. I don't remember the exact price but it was well over $100 for a couple dollar piece of cheap plastic with a bearing inside. I didn't have much choice since I needed both of my 8" floppies working to manage my customer list database that required bouncing back and forth between two 256k floppies. So I paid the usurious part charge.

JR

 

[Newmarket]

Hugely impractical for a one-off repair. Pot makers generally don't tool up custom pot tapers for less than several thousand at a time.

Depends on a couple of things - is it a tapered or linear law ? And who makes / made it ?
Appreciate Peavey probably did 'big numbers' but I worked at P&G so relatively small batch sizes. And particularly on some of the non-audio products eg electronic joysticks for off-highway vehicles ("diggers") typical batch size might be 25 off covering a couple of months production. Say three axis so 75 pot' tracks. Probably made in one off higher quantity of a couple of hundred or so for economy of scale vs excess inventory.
SSL major fader customer. I think the rotaries for the desks came from Clarostat ? So this case might be same.

This reminds me of a similar painful repair. Back in the 70s one of the centering bearing dongles that my the 8" floppy disks rode on broke apart. I found the component manufacturer and ordered a replacement. I don't remember the exact price but it was well over $100 for a couple dollar piece of cheap plastic with a bearing inside. I didn't have much choice since I needed both of my 8" floppies working to manage my customer list database that required bouncing back and forth between two 256k floppies. So I paid the usurious part charge.

JR

Ouch ! These days you might have found a 'hack' on the YouTube

 

[Newmarket]

I'm trying to get my Lavry converter repaired (they are the only ones who can do it). After an initial answer they are no longer replying to emails...

That kind of thing is so annoying

 

[JohnRoberts]

Depends on a couple of things - is it a tapered or linear law ? And who makes / made it ?
Appreciate Peavey probably did 'big numbers' but I worked at P&G so relatively small batch sizes. And particularly on some of the non-audio products eg electronic joysticks for off-highway vehicles ("diggers") typical batch size might be 25 off covering a couple of months production. Say three axis so 75 pot' tracks. Probably made in one off higher quantity of a couple of hundred or so for economy of scale vs excess inventory.
SSL major fader customer. I think the rotaries for the desks came from Clarostat ? So this case might be same.

I can't tell but I ASSumed the poster was asking about a typical small (cheap) rotary pot...

Back in the day P&G faders might have cost that much new. I recall paying a bunch for P&G console faders back in the 70s.

Ouch ! These days you might have found a 'hack' on the YouTube

no youtube in the 70s....

JR

 

[Newmarket]

I can't tell but I ASSumed the poster was asking about a typical small (cheap) rotary pot...

It's an SSL bit of kit. It won't be cheap
fwiw I see 'SSL' dual gang pots offered for around £20 - £30 on the 'bay

| eBay

so maybe needs to just take the £50 pot to get up and running again.

Back in the day P&G faders might have cost that much new. I recall paying a bunch for P&G console faders back in the 70s.

I guess they were the "Big Old" beasts that were no longer manufactured when I was there in the 90s.
But I know they were, as Stella Artois might say, "Reassuringly Expensive" !
By my time there (on electronics but close enough to the fader production to see it) the main fader product was the 3000 Series with the less expensive 8000 series introduced to better compete on price esp wrt TKD and ALPS.
I think it was estimated that the cost for the original fader design would be >£100 at that time !
Standard unit cost for 3000 at one point was £25 (subject to MOQ). So if you bought a bunch for your desk from the manufacturer you'd end up paying c £75. But you could purchase direct if you enquired and enough for a 48/64 channel desk would meet the MOQ IIRC.
It sticks in my mind because the MD had some battles with OEM customers over price multipliers / added value etc.

no youtube in the 70s....

Exactly. And not even Ceefax

 

[pucho812]

A lot goes into shipping. Try shipping to more remote places. Let’s not forget import duties and such. For example if I sent stuff to Canada, depending on how it’s labeled and marked could result in a huge import tax or next to nothing import tax.
I get it. It’s easy to go that pot only costs a few dollars why am I charged way more. Well there is way more involved to getting you that pot which is why it costs more. Way different than I ordered it from mouser.

 

[JohnRoberts]

It's an SSL bit of kit. It won't be cheap
fwiw I see 'SSL' dual gang pots offered for around £20 - £30 on the 'bay

| eBay

so maybe needs to just take the £50 pot to get up and running again.



I guess they were the "Big Old" beasts that were no longer manufactured when I was there in the 90s.
But I know they were, as Stella Artois might say, "Reassuringly Expensive" !
By my time there (on electronics but close enough to the fader production to see it) the main fader product was the 3000 Series with the less expensive 8000 series introduced to better compete on price esp wrt TKD and ALPS.
I think it was estimated that the cost for the original fader design would be >£100 at that time !
Standard unit cost for 3000 at one point was £25 (subject to MOQ). So if you bought a bunch for your desk from the manufacturer you'd end up paying c £75. But you could purchase direct if you enquired and enough for a 48/64 channel desk would meet the MOQ IIRC.
It sticks in my mind because the MD had some battles with OEM customers over price multipliers / added value etc.



Exactly. And not even Ceefax

I suspect we may have different ideas about what are cost effective pots. Perhaps the OP can clarify his needs.

Overhead and handling for a one off could cost that much while it rarely gets charged.

JR

 

[Newmarket]

I suspect we may have different ideas about what are cost effective pots. Perhaps the OP can clarify his needs.

Not necessarily. It all depends on the context / quantity etc.
And a different approach if I'm buying for personal use
P&G rotary pots def not cost effective even for the big desk customers. Hence Clarostat etc.
Mainly sold to the premium hifi crowd. I recall the MD amusement at how much Krell would pay for a volume pot with a big spun aluminium knob and a damped movement achieved by Kilopoise.

Overhead and handling for a one off could cost that much while it rarely gets charged.

JR

+1

 

[kags]

Try Eao, I don’t recall asSL using nkk

EAO are used for the G/G+ and those are still avail (for about $35 a pop, but only in black), but the J/K seem to use Nihon Kaiheiki. SSL says they don't stock any parts for J/K anymore. (@Brian Roth ) Here are some photos. I think I've heard some people mention that there is a suitable substitute.

Thanks!