Strange issue with Apogee AD-16 interface

[sloost]

I recently have a strange issue with my Apogee AD-16 interface, since I'm not able to select the EXT/WC anymore. Although, so far it was clocked externaly to an Antelope Orion 32HD without any problems. When I now toggle through the available sample rates, the whole unit locks-up right before EXT/WC is being selected. Only a power cycle gets the unit running again. The problem seems persistent, even when all inputs and outputs are disconnected the unit locks-up in the same way.​

Is there anyone that had a similar experience? Any clues about the cause of this problem are very welcome. ​

 

[Tubetec]

If you search the forum here you'll find plenty of references to Apogee convertors ,
the have had their problems and the company lost face bigtime due to poor aftersales backup and extortionate costs for repairs .
I have one buddy payed out big money years ago for the AD-16 ,the DA-16 and the so called Big Ben master clock , according to him the firewire side of the interface never played well with Windows .

I doubt you'll get any satisfaction from Apogee regarding schematics either , but you might find back engineered partial schematics if you look around . Besy of luck with it , sorry I could be of more help .

 

[Michael Tibes]

I tried to get schematics for the DA-16 (have 2 of these with all the same problem on several outputs) and also help with weird behavior of AD-16s from them. They don't hand out schematics and with the 'behavioral' problem they wouldn't even understand it / didn't care one bit - hard to tell. Also they pointed out that there would probably be no spare parts available any more for these old units, so repair might be difficult. As much as I like their sound I'm certainly not going to throw my money at them again...

So if I ever want to fix my DA-16s, I'll have to reverse engineer them...

Could you clock from another input as a workaround?

Michael

 

[sloost]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Schematics would certainly be very helpful to pinpoint broken parts.

The unit works on it's external clock. Only using an external word clock is not possible. Clocking another interface through the word clock out of my AD-16 is no problem. This means that there is only a problem with the word clock input circuit. My assumption is that this circuit is similar or even the same as on the DA-16.

I contacted Apogee about the issue and their conclusion was clear but disapointing:

"Unfortunately if your unit will not cycle at all to the WC/EXT setting on the unit, this would need repair to determine this issue. Unfortunately as the original AD-16 is an obsolete interface we do not offer repair due to discontinuation of parts available".

 

[radardoug]

The lesson from this? DONT BUY APOGEE PRODUCTS!!!!

 

[Brian Roth]

Or Avid......

 

[dreamix]

Just horrible experiences with these interfaces, clock sync issues, output channels not working correct or at all, power up problems, noisy AD....

 

[Whoops]

and extortionate costs for repairs .

Repairs at Apogee were free, you just had to pay the shipping of the unit to them and the parts that were replaced, but no service fee was charged

 

[Newmarket]

Repairs at Apogee were free, you just had to pay the shipping of the unit to them and the parts that were replaced, but no service fee was charged

Past tense ?

 

[Whoops]

Past tense ?

I don’t know if Apogees service is still the same or not, but when I sent my AD8000 and AD16 for repair their politic was to repair it free of charge, I just paid the Opamps and capacitors they replaced which was a marginal cost, and paid the shipping

Maybe it’s still the same but I’m not sure, I sent the units around 7 years ago

 

[orpheusmaximo]

Owner and constant user of an AD-8000SE ( WC from Ad-16x ) and an AD-16x.

The 8000 always worked well but the AD-16x used to show odd behavior ( sometimes it
would refuse to boot up, I would have to open it up and use a very small screwdriver to
make contact between certain chips, then it would come back. I learned this trick out
of desperation ).

Once I bought the SurgeX rack conditioner, never had a problem.

Note that I don't use the FireWire card ( even sold it ), I go toslink into my DAW.
Big Ben WC. Great sound ( 24/48 ), great timbre!

 

[Whoops]

Owner and constant user of an AD-8000SE ( WC from Ad-16x ) and an AD-16x.
(...
Big Ben WC. Great sound ( 24/48 ), great timbre!

I was always and I'm still are a big fan of the sound of the AD8000 and AD16 units.

But having dead channels after a while seems to be a problem with this units, I know more colleagues of mine that have or had the same problem.
It's really a shame that we can't get Apogee schematics, I'm pretty sure if we had access to it that it would be easy to understand why this happens and how to fix it

 

[Khron]

Are the analog sections really THAT difficult to reverse engineer, though?

 

[orpheusmaximo]

I was always and I'm still are a big fan of the sound of the AD8000 and AD16 units.

But having dead channels after a while seems to be a problem with this units, I know more colleagues of mine that have or had the same problem.
It's really a shame that we can't get Apogee schematics, I'm pretty sure if we had access to it that it would be easy to understand why this happens and how to fix it

I haven't had any problems like that, so knock on wood, I just feel that the Ad-16 ( pref. "x" ) with the Big Ben clock ( my AD8000 does sound better, "clearer" with the Big Ben. Everything with a WC-in does ) and 16 channels, if found at a reasonable price, is a bargain, specially for the Toslink guy ( ex-early ADAT user here. I record multi-channel guitar. When I go 12/14 channels, I also use the Ad16. A lot of times I record no more than eight channels, so I do it all in the AD8000 with the Ad16 clock. Apogee messed up with the level leds in the Ad16, almost unusable, but I guess their idea was to get the levels from the computer. Still, the AD8000 makes everything much easier. The unit previous to the AD16 ( the purple one ) had better led level, but no Big Ben. I guess by then, by the release of the Ad-16, Apogee was more interested in putting the more expensive Symphony system out, while trying all sorts of audio pro-Sumer stuff.

Personally, as long as it works, I'm sticking to my Apogee/RME rig, does what I want, sounds like I want it to.

P.s: These guys that are losing channel count, are they sure the problem isn't db-25 cables or connectors? I got a bad cable that "lost" some channels. Made some of my own, to have assorted balanced/unbalanced.

 

[Whoops]

P.s: These guys that are losing channel count, are they sure the problem isn't db-25 cables or connectors?

Yes, 100% sure the problem is not in the DB25 connector or cable but on the unit's circuitry

 

[skipwave]

I’m running AD-16X and DA-16X via RME Digiface. No dead channels but some clocking weirdness.

I run WC from AD to DA, and the DA always defaults to WC x 2, so starts up at 192kHz instead of the 96kHz sample rate the AD is outputting. I change it and it’s fine, but next start up it defaults back to 2x. I’m worried the dodgy soft keys are gonna break and I’ll be stuck.

Also, the DA shows 96.01kHz, no clue as to why.

 

[scott2000]

the DA always defaults to WC x 2

Just looking at the manual real quick there's a mention of the wc ratio setting? Figured may as well be mentioned...
Fascinating....is it necessary to clock the da?

 

[orpheusmaximo]

Yes, 100% sure the problem is not in the DB25 connector or cable but on the unit's circuitry

Glad you checked. I have opened mine, at my level of soldering little I would try. The sad thing with legacy digital equip. is, as much as you love it, at some point you either live with any limitations, if possible, or it is just more cost-effective to let it go for the next & newer.
Good luck!

 

[Whoops]

I really try to battle "Planned Obsolescence" and more electronic waste as much as possible. So I try to repair and maintain the gear that I like and run it for as long as possible.

I don't take it lightly when I'm happy with my gear and it does everything I need but I'm forced into buying the new thing or the new product that will do exactly the same as the gear I already have.
The AD8000 sounded great to me in 2005 when I got it and it still sound good to me in 2022, the output protocol I have installed in the unit is Adat lightpipe which somehow still survives up to this day so it's usability was still not blocked by economic pressure, fortunately.
That's the usability part, as for the ability to repair it, without schematics and if Apogee stops or already stopped repairing these units then the possibilities to repair them are scarce.

 

[orpheusmaximo]

I really try to battle "Planned Obsolescence" and more electronic waste as much as possible. So I try to repair and maintain the gear that I like and run it for as long as possible.

I don't take it lightly when I'm happy with my gear and it does everything I need but I'm forced into buying the new thing or the new product that will do exactly the same as the gear I already have.
The AD8000 sounded great to me in 2005 when I got it and it still sound good to me in 2022, the output protocol I have installed in the unit is Adat lightpipe which somehow still survives up to this day so it's usability was still not blocked by economic pressure, fortunately.
That's the usability part, as for the ability to repair it, without schematics and if Apogee stops or already stopped repairing these units then the possibilities to repair them are scarce.

I know what you mean. "Forced obsolescence" is terrible. I think you either live with the limitations, or try something. Can you tell if an op-amp is fried without removing it? Then again, you need someone with experience to work on that, I remember the board being packed and full of very small components. Not an easy job.